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[ChairmanPoo]

I just wasn't sure how to construct a response.

It's easy: just point out that "middle ground is best" is a hollow aphorism in itself. Illustrate it by using that logic to prove outrageous stuff.

[SalmonGod]

The one I always get stuck with is my positions are regarded as too extreme, strictly because they are measured against that which is currently established.  Then there's the obligatory "But yes, there are lots of problems with the way things work today", therefore the answer must lie somewhere in the middle.

It isn't easy explaining to most people that using the context of their own familiarity to measure the extremeness of any other idea isn't necessarily legitimate.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I find it funny how the Syrian people were getting ran over, shot, brutalized before the 'Occupy' group began..

And now, with zero people "Occupy"-ing my town (we had a total max of about 200-300 people, all completely incoherent Neo-Liberal morons that I attempted to discus actual policy with), the Syrian people, in 2012, are still getting ran over, shot, brutalized...

Makes it pretty hard to justify saying our country is oppressive, doesn't it?

If I were in Occupy at any moment and claimed to be as oppressed or in such economic straights as a person under a despot like Assad, Mubarak, or governments the like of Myanmar and the DRC... I'd feel like an evil, selfish person.

We, as Americans, have it pretty easy.

[Nadaka]

I find it funny how the Syrian people were getting ran over, shot, brutalized before the 'Occupy' group began..

And now, with zero people "Occupy"-ing my town (we had a total max of about 200-300 people, all completely incoherent Neo-Liberal morons that I attempted to discus actual policy with), the Syrian people, in 2012, are still getting ran over, shot, brutalized...

Makes it pretty hard to justify saying our country is oppressive, doesn't it?

If I were in Occupy at any moment and claimed to be as oppressed or in such economic straights as a person under a despot like Assad, Mubarak, or governments the like of Myanmar and the DRC... I'd feel like an evil, selfish person.

We, as Americans, have it pretty easy.

Just because the Syrian people are far more fucked than we are, does not mean that we are not being fucked as well.

Thank you for perfectly demonstrating the golden mean fallacy.

[GlyphGryph]

No, it really doesn't. If is was kidnapped and stuffed in a cushioned box and fed three meals a day, I would steal be kidnapped, even if the guy in the next cell over was beaten and starved instead.

There are different types and degrees of oppression, clearly. And most of it is based around what the public let happens - if you ever want things to get better, you need to shift the Overton window. The fact that people have it worse elsewhere should never stop you from doing that.

And its kind of a strawman, as occupy isn't really fighting Oppression.

[Nadaka]

Occupy is fighting oppression. Economic oppression.

[SalmonGod]

Global economic oppression.  Many American occupiers realize they're not fighting only for themselves.  They recognize that the U.S. has contributed to de-stabilization in many regions by economic means or reckless military ventures, and that they have been quietly complicit or covertly supportive of many regimes just as bad as Syria's.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Except the fact that the people in Occupy have no idea what governance is for the most part and do not know how to control a stable government, let alone tell me what the "New" and "Better" economic/monetary system is.

The vast majority of Occupy supporters I know are borderline Anarchists. "Fighting" (in this case, doing nothing by large) for a cause =/= Accomplishing an objective. Simply being a part of some shadowy unregulated 'movement' (consisting of about 1-2 % of the populace) does not do anything.

Changes in items such as economic and political rights/accessibility do not come through silly little gatherings of people with a penchant for thinking they're correct. It comes through legislation and proper governance. Neither of which "Occupy"-ers have given a real proposed way of instituting change. (Except for: "It's wrong and we should change it!" Which usually boils down to them describing Communism to me)

[SalmonGod]

Right.  Got anything constructive to say?  Or did you just pop in to inform us that you think a bunch of people suck?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Right.  Got anything constructive to say?

Don't act like you're doing something moral when not doing anything to help the others in a true dire situation. That is all. Neo-Liberalism on the level of Che Guevara is outdated.

[DJ]

In short: if you're not a certified doctor you don't get to seek treatment. Just roll over and die already.

[Jerick]

Changes in items such as economic and political rights/accessibility do not come through silly little gatherings of people with a penchant for thinking they're correct. It comes through legislation and proper governance. Neither of which "Occupy"-ers have given a real proposed way of instituting change. (Except for: "It's wrong and we should change it!" Which usually boils down to them describing Communism to me)

Of course silly little gatherings don't change anything directly, those in power often ignore them.
But the thing is they get other people thinking and are more about an ideogolical battle in the hearts and minds of the general populace than any direct change.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

In short: if you're not a certified doctor you don't get to seek treatment. Just roll over and die already.

Or how about you take my statement as a call to action instead of attempting to write it off with poorly thought out sarcasm? What's happened to people now when such selfishness is rampant?

The reason why the American policial system is in such shambles is not because of the ever-present corruption and inability of politicians to do their job, it's because of the ineducated and foolish people within. Our government isn't the way it is by accident.

[SalmonGod]

Right.  Got anything constructive to say?

Don't act like you're doing something moral when not doing anything to help the others in a true dire situation. That is all. Neo-Liberalism on the level of Che Guevara is outdated.

Global economic oppression.  Many American occupiers realize they're not fighting only for themselves.  They recognize that the U.S. has contributed to de-stabilization in many regions by economic means or reckless military ventures, and that they have been quietly complicit or covertly supportive of many regimes just as bad as Syria's.

Plus, can you tell me what you mean by outdated?  Or perhaps what qualifies as not outdated?

[Nadaka]

Right.  Got anything constructive to say?

Don't act like you're doing something moral when not doing anything to help the others in a true dire situation. That is all. Neo-Liberalism on the level of Che Guevara is outdated.

The system is broken and wholly owned, working within the system in its current state is effectively impossible. Protest is the first and necessary step in raising awareness and making change.

Very few of us are talking about communism. And if that is all you hear, you are being ignorant.