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[Kogan Loloklam]

... remind me... how many free elections happened in the soviet block during the cold war?  I'm struggling to remember the number.

Define free. Mimicking the system the US instilled in it's Puppet Governments? Quite a few.

I'm not saying that Democracy wasn't supported on paper by the US government, but propaganda and actions differ greatly in both countries.

[Aqizzar]

... remind me... how many free elections happened in the soviet block during the cold war?  I'm struggling to remember the number.

Define free. Mimicking the system the US instilled in it's Puppet Governments? Quite a few.

You're the one that keeps going to dictionary.com for information on political concepts.  What's to say you're going to like his answer?

[SalmonGod]

No, that's all nutso.  The cold war was capitalism vs. communism and nothing more.  Democracy played no part in it.

And what of the democratically elected and popular leaders that were deposed by U.S. intervention during the Cold War?......

And if the United States has really been so concerned with defending democracy, how come it's failed so horribly to do so for itself?

[Eagle_eye]

Elections in the United States could hardly be called "free" especially at the time period you're talking about. The power of large corporations, while less then, was still tremendous, and political candidates all come from the upper middle class or the wealthy. I doubt you can find a single major politician from that time period who was poor during their election. Admittedly, it's still better than the USSR, which is better described as state capitalist, not communist, but to say that the United States is a bastion of freedom and fair governance is false. Not to mention all the democratically elected governments we deposed. Allende, Kasa-Vubu, the guy in Iran I can't remember the name of, etc.

Also, I need to type faster... three new replies...

[Kogan Loloklam]

You're the one that keeps going to dictionary.com for information on political concepts.  What's to say you're going to like his answer?

You don't have to like the truth for it to be so.

I think it's clear that no free elections occurred in the soviet bloc. Of course some of those soviet bloc countries have had more governmental transparency and electoral freedom than some cold-war American puppets.

Here's a real question. I don't even have the answer to this one, though it is one I'd like to know... How long has Castro's Cuba been having elections, fair or not?

[ChairmanPoo]

Portoguese

1: It's "Portuguese".
2: Are you seriously saying that Salazar was a defender of freedom?

It's not that you did not take into account the rather long list of democratic goverments which were overthrown or attacked with the help of the US. It's that you didn't even think to check your list of "Free Nations" for less-than-democratic examples, either.

Seriously I thought this guy was kidding or being ironic when he made the firsts posts in this direction.

[Heron TSG]

No, that's all nutso.  The cold war was capitalism vs. communism and nothing more.  Democracy played no part in it.

And what of the democratically elected and popular leaders that were deposed by U.S. intervention during the Cold War?......

And if the United States has really been so concerned with defending democracy, how come it's failed so horribly to do so for itself?

It's a pretty good justification for war for Congress, and apparently they like to do whatever the fuck they want, no matter who we vote in. Trying to change that, if I can.

[mainiac]

It's not that you did not take into account the rather long list of democratic goverments which were overthrown or attacked with the help of the US. It's that you didn't even think to check your list of "Free Nations" for less-than-democratic examples, either.

Whoops, Portugal should have been on the became democracy list, not stayed democracy.

The US protected freedom sometimes.  The USSR protected freedom never.  The difference between those two things is IMMENSE.

[ChairmanPoo]

Whoops, Portugal should have been on the became democracy list, not stayed democracy.

No thanks to the US

The US protected freedom sometimes.  The USSR protected freedom never.  The difference between those two things is IMMENSE.

Questionable.

[mainiac]

During the cold war, we passed the point where half the world's population was participating in democracy.  That overwhelmingly happened in countries that were allies of the US.

[Aqizzar]

I don't suppose I could butt in and ask everyone what the Hell this half-baked Cold War symposium has to do with Occupy Wall Street?


Speaking of which, tonight Scott Olson gave his first interview since leaving the hospital...  To Ed Schultz on MSNBC.  I don't know how that oaf managed to score such a choice interview, although it wouldn't surprise me if he has a lot of fans among Occupy diehards (literally, in Olson's case).  Not that I'm necessarily knocking the guy, I just can't stand him.

Anyway, Olson.  He's supposedly on his way to a full recovery, although speaking is clearly an effort for him and looked like he got tired by the end of five minutes of talking.  Still, he's as impressive to watch answer questions as any veteran should be, and he sure looks like he's going to okay.

[Eagle_eye]

We also hit a point where the taxes on the wealthy dropped, and kept dropping. That's harmful to the majority of americans. So how does something like that get passed in a democracy?

[SalmonGod]

The US protected freedom sometimes.  The USSR protected freedom never.  The difference between those two things is IMMENSE.

It would be an immense difference, except I don't believe the u.s. did anything for the sake of protecting freedom.  Protecting freedom was only an occasional coincidence that had nothing to do with the difference between socialism and capitalism, as was the origin of this tangent.

[mainiac]

I don't suppose I could butt in and ask everyone what the Hell this half-baked Cold War symposium has to do with Occupy Wall Street?

Not much.  Fun fact, sumposium comes from the greek word for "drinking together".  Socrates apparently had quite a reputation for being able to hold his liquor and say witty things when everyone else was too sloshed to keep up.

[SalmonGod]

I don't suppose I could butt in and ask everyone what the Hell this half-baked Cold War symposium has to do with Occupy Wall Street?

Not much. 

Kogan was expressing his concerns about socialist sentiments among the Occupy movement, and said a bunch of things about socialism that people disagreed with.  Any discussion about the nature of socialism inevitably references the Cold War.