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[Truean]

Is it wrong to fantasize about doing horrible things to that cop? Get a couple of guys, 4 or 5, break into his house at night, preferrably without waking him. Then you need two guys to hold him down, one to hold his head in place, and one to hold the trigger on the pepper spray down until the can runs dry.

I think I have issues.

If, sooner or later, someone seeks revenge like this, then it'll be the end of the movement and either the last straw for it or something much, much worse.

[Tellemurius]

Is it wrong to fantasize about doing horrible things to that cop? Get a couple of guys, 4 or 5, break into his house at night, preferrably without waking him. Then you need two guys to hold him down, one to hold his head in place, and one to hold the trigger on the pepper spray down until the can runs dry.

I think I have issues.

If, sooner or later, someone seeks revenge like this, then it'll be the end of the movement and either the last straw for it or something much, much worse.

Agreed, i told the Denver guys i will bail on their asses if they start a fucking war with the cops. I help them stay there but i am not gonna try beat a cop over his head. most of them are nice guys anyways and they even talk to the protesters, just when they roll, they fucking roll.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Here's generally what I told to the Colorado Springs Occupy movement when they asked my opinion...

Around the country right now people are being cracked down on. For the most part they are staying within the law and being cracked down on anyway. As this occurs, if they remain non-violent they will get more people who will stand behind them. If they get violent and militant they will be quickly dismissed as worthless. If they allow the violence to move them they will be quickly dismissed as worthless. They have to take their licks, and know it will get much worse before it gets better.

So yea, as much as I joke about pepper spraying back and using Lime and Baking Soda as psychological weapons, when it starts happening if the movement doesn't have broad popular support, it's over. And I don't mean they got thousands in New York and Boston and Washington and stuff. No, I mean when you are seeing 2-5% of the population of city these movements are in turning out for marches.

Colorado Springs:
Max Marching amount (unverified): 200.
Population: 400000+
Percentage: 0.05%
Amount needed for 2%: 8000

Denver:
Max Marching amount: Unknown
Population: 600000+
Percentage: Unknown
Amount needed for 2%: 12000

Colorado:
Max Marching amount: Unknown
Population: 5000000+
Percentage: Unknown
Amount needed for 2%: 100000

United States:
Max Marching amount: Unknown
Population: 312000000+
Percentage: Unknown
Amount needed for 2%: 6240000

They need to see at least a SIX MILLION man march before they can even think about fighting back.

[Truean]

Yeah.... There's no point in that at all....

Aside from the obvious reasons that tangent is a bad idea to discuss, large numbers wouldn't tactically do it, because they'd just call in the national guard/army and no amount of numbers is going to beat them. The US clearly knows how to handle large number foes. It's the small guerrilla ones we seem to have a freaking problem with.

[SalmonGod]

The only power a person has beyond what they can do with their own hands is determined by what they can convince other people to do for them.  The 1% only have power because we take orders from them.

The only power we have is to stop working for them, which amounts to complete disarmament.  If the 'enforcer class' stops working for them, then things get really easy.  But since they're the least likely people to do so, significant numbers of people in any position resolving to work for each other instead of their bosses is both necessary and sufficient. 

The camps and marches are just one way of doing this.  Protest and occupation is both symbolic and a practical means of exploring one's own power of self-determination (something that is really very important and difficult because of the paradoxical ways our culture alienates it from us), while showing everyone else in the world that they would not be alone if they chose to do so as well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Bauglir]

Collective goods are a bitch to deal with, yeah. Everybody would benefit if everybody cooperated, but if not everybody does, then the people who did try get screwed and nobody wants to take that risk. So nobody does, and nobody benefits.

[Darvi]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My avatar suddenly makes so much more sense now.

[DJ]

Aside from the obvious reasons that tangent is a bad idea to discuss, large numbers wouldn't tactically do it, because they'd just call in the national guard/army and no amount of numbers is going to beat them.

It'd result in thousands of dead civilians, which would make odds of a coup pretty damn high.

[Kogan Loloklam]

It would only result in anything positive if it has broad support, and only if you are seeing percentages HIGHER than the 1% they are rallying against physically present will that support be there.
I can talk about how I like/don't like the occupy movement until I'm blue in the face, but if they don't have much population, if they suddenly start advocating resistance they will lose what they have.

Before they can get violent, they have to get support.
Of course once they have the support, I'm not sure they will even need violence. Time will tell. We aren't Libya, but we have some pretty entrenched corruption anyway...

[Zangi]

Remember the recent UK riots?  The last thing I remember about them from media sources is all the politicians and media denouncing everyone as hoodlums, petty thieves and gangs.  Because it did not have enough support and was wholly ignored by the media till it happened.

OWS does not want to become the recent UK riots.

[Azkanan]

Remember the recent UK riots?  The last thing I remember about them from media sources is all the politicians and media denouncing everyone as hoodlums, petty thieves and gangs.  Because it did not have enough support and was wholly ignored by the media till it happened.

OWS does not want to become the recent UK riots.

UK Riots were !!FUN!!.

Shame it was just an excuse to cause !!FUN!! and nothing of worth, though. But hey, this is what happens when the Upper Class ignore the Lower Class, so it did have a good ending, because now the Upper Class fear to Ignore the Lower Class.

[Dwarf]

The problem with the UK riots is that, the way I see it, it was basically an unformed fit of rage against the way things work, namely capitalist exploitation, that degenerated into meaningless destruction.
Unformed fits of rage do not really help. One must canalize the people's anger into determined, meaningful actions.

[Azkanan]

The problem with the UK riots is that, the way I see it, it was basically an unformed fit of rage against the way things work, namely capitalist exploitation.
Unformed fits of rage do not really help. One must canalize the people's anger into determined, meaningful actions.

But this could happen again, and as a result, the Upper Class Government are making changes to the Lower Class now.

They're subsidising employer's pay-outs for wages for up to 400,000 "unemployed young people" (21-24, I think) in April.  (£1 Billion).

Very convenient timing.

It might be self-serving for their own safety in office, as usual, but at least us younger fellows have *some* sort of chance from it.

[Karakzon]

That little bit of cash -relativly speaking- is paying employers to hire workers for a minimum of 8 weeks,
2 months a reliable job does not make. i know work places that will make a profit on hireing with that one

The main problem is that the Uk dosent have a goal production policy. our textiles have gone overseas along with our steel, coal and all our other production industrys. whats left? nothing realy. what needs to be addressed is how to kick start an industry in which we wont be out competed by cheeper labour. and we cant employ more public sector workers, because thats the system now, it was a quick fix and it leaks cash like buggery.

the banks need to be taxed, a longer term employment plan needs to be made and our democracy needs to be implamented a bit better.
-greater ability for partys to form ide say, ie cheeper costs, the ability for people to form youth group partys -that could later translate into propper ones-, so theirs more challange on a base line level against the bigger standard partys-.

for the US of A?
i pitty your state of affairs to be honest, the banks and corporations have your country by the balls alot worse than most places.

[MonkeyHead]

Dont forget that a large number of those involved in the UK riots were oportunistic in thier approach to casual criminality enabled by circumstances. The Occupy movement is more organized and has peaceful intent at heart, not the desire for a new TV simply as its more probable you can get away with it during unrest.