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Author Topic: Wild West Mafia - GAME OVER - Scum Win!  (Read 146133 times)

Urist_McArathos

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 1 [9/9] - No gold for the wicked ?
« Reply #255 on: October 17, 2011, 10:06:37 pm »

McArathos: Okay, ignoring the newbtown thing, can you answer the question? At the time, what made Shark a more likely candidate for scum than OB? Or was he never a more likely candidate?

Mm...not MORE likely.  Orangebottle was less overtly scummy at that time, but I gave Shark a lot of slack for being a newbie after a read through or three.  At first he seemed too new to bother, so I wrote him off and focused on you, Urist, and Orangebottle (Jim isn't confirmed town to me, but he's too hard to read since his scum and town play are so close in form and he hasn't pursued any garbage cases yet).

I found a lot of his behavior very questionable and scummy, but a lot of other details (along with his admission) reinforced the newbie image.  At first he seemed a lot more scummy, between his SK speculation, telling the town it would be a bad idea to lynch him because it was MYLO, and simultaneously entertaining the possibility of a Vig AND encouraging a claim.  After a read through, this stuff stuck out more and more to me as Imiknorris and you cleared yourselves from my list of suspects.

If he was a more experienced player, I would have voted him on the spot (which is why he was voted at first).  I reconsidered my stance when I re-read again and figured a LOT of his missteps could be just as easily explained as a new player just tripping over himself and saying all manner of dumb shit without realizing what he was doing.  I meant to probe him in my post to see which way he broke.
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Orangebottle

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 1 [9/9] - No gold for the wicked ?
« Reply #256 on: October 17, 2011, 11:02:57 pm »

And your argument isn't very strong, so I'm not going to through the effort of proving it to you.
Then you have no defense from it.

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Yes, I post frequently, but they're small posts with little content, I had neither the time nor will to go through the effort of scumhunting. Nothing new was going to come out of D1.
That's the very definition of active lurking. Which is why you should've said that you were busy back in day one instead of bringing it up now.

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But I didn't say that is was suspicious things that Shark did that you were going back to look for, I was saying that you've been tunneling Shark and I would like you to do something other than that.
Except, by asking me to stop tunneling shark right after I say that I'm going to go look for suspicious things, that's exactly what you're saying.

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But I didn't say that is was suspicious things that Shark did that you were going back to look for, I was saying that you've been tunneling Shark and I would like you to do something other than that.Which you're doing now, kudos to you. Also, I did say that... by accusing you of tunneling, it's implied that you weren't looking at anybody else. That's kind of what tunneling is...
Are you sure? You don't seem very confident about it.

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You did, however point out something I missed.

Arathos: It's one thing to be tired, but to vote for someone you said was probably newbtown in the very same post? Come on. At the time, what made Shark a more likely candidate for scum than OB?
We've already been over this. Stop trying to deflect onto Arathos.

I like the intent of this post. However, you get 72 hours to figure it out and post some stuff. When you finally post a case it ends up being a massive contradiction. Instead of hunting the person who looks like the worst scum on the face of the earth(me), you go after someone you say is likely "newb town".

So, we're back to this, are we?  I figured we were done harassing me about my big fuckup with voting shark when you said you understood me now.
You said, in that post "You never meant to vote shark in the first place." This is about you making a case on someone you consider to be newb town.

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You've admitted to making shit up to get Jim to stop questioning you; if that's not cracking under pressure I don't know what is.  You didn't hunt scum, you didn't convince him your case on Shark was worth pursuing (or really pursue a decent case on anyone), and instead resorted to just kicking up dirt in the hopes he'd eventually give up and go away.  That is the behavior of someone who is TERRIFIED of being lynched.
Okay. What's your point?
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This bullshit with my misvote is just that: bullshit.  See, I expected people to say "What the fuck, McArathos" and make me explain myself.  I did.  You accepted my explanation.  Now, when the heat is on, suddenly it's suspicious again.  You're looking for a scapegoat to get the heat off you.
BZZZZZZZZZZT.
Wrong. This isn't about your vote.

Thing is, if you know someone's a newb, why are you even asking him any of those questions? There are few things in that post could actually lead to you firmly believing that Shark is scum.

Really?  Asking him to explain his refusal to build a case, or why he is defending instead of scumhunting can't possibly lead to proof he's scum?
No, because they also lead to proof he's a newb.

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Demanding he explain why he's trying to guilt the town out of voting him with his "This could be MYLO, you can't lynch me" shit isn't attacking a scummy move?  (You've done the same thing, by the way, and gave less than satisfactory answers for it).
Because he's new.
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Wanting him to answer for the VERY scummy request that a vigilante reveal itself despite common sense making it clear this is only an anti-town decision isn't attacking him for scummy behavior?
He didn't know it was scummy.
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Fuck that, Orangebottle.  I had plenty to get out of questioning him, and I got it.  He broke town, so I switched focus to you.
You're pretty pissed off about this, aren't you? If my case on you is just me looking for a scapegoat instead of an actual concern(hint: it isn't), why are you so angry about it?

Imiknorris seems to be doing exactly what others criticized me for: hopping in and pointing shit out to look active. Specifically, here, here, and here if you want some proof.
I'd like to know why.

I would like to see where you're being criticized for "hopping in and pointing shit out to look active." I can't seem to find it, unless you think that pointing things out == making things up.
Bam. Right there. Also right here.
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I've also been questioning people on the things I've pointed out. If I find something that I think is suspicious, I am going to make sure that other people see it, and I am going to get an explanation for it.
So have I.
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-I'm afraid I don't see how the first example is at all what you're talking about - I was agreeing with Jim that the second nightkill was probably a vig, and asking questions of you and Shark.
-The second post was an attempt to get Native to post - I occasionally check other players' profile pages and if I see they've been online recently, but haven't posted, I assume they were lurking until told otherwise.
-The third post should have had a bit more information - I was going to question Andrew about his position on musicalcakes D2.
Compare them to my examples; you'll find that you were doing the same thing.
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What makes you think you can get away with threatening a town loss to avoid being lynched? You were even the one who pointed out that Shark was doing it. It's a scumtell, you know it is, and you did it anyway. You better have a damn good reason for it.
Not threatening, promising.
It's entirely impossible to defend myself at this point. I have been completely discredited as far as this game goes. I'm not even sure why I'm still hunting at this point, given that nobody's going to actually listen what I have to say instead of dismissing it as something from the mouth of a flailing scum.

I'd roleclaim, but that would just confuse everybody and get me lynched even harder than I'm about to be right now.
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NativeForeigner

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 1 [9/9] - No gold for the wicked ?
« Reply #257 on: October 17, 2011, 11:21:18 pm »

And your argument isn't very strong, so I'm not going to through the effort of proving it to you.
Then you have no defense from it.

With an argument this weak I don't really need one.

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Yes, I post frequently, but they're small posts with little content, I had neither the time nor will to go through the effort of scumhunting. Nothing new was going to come out of D1.
That's the very definition of active lurking. Which is why you should've said that you were busy back in day one instead of bringing it up now.

It wasn't a big deal then and it shouldn't be now. The only reason you're bringing it up is because you're scrambling for something to get you off the block.

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But I didn't say that is was suspicious things that Shark did that you were going back to look for, I was saying that you've been tunneling Shark and I would like you to do something other than that.
Except, by asking me to stop tunneling shark right after I say that I'm going to go look for suspicious things, that's exactly what you're saying.

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But I didn't say that is was suspicious things that Shark did that you were going back to look for, I was saying that you've been tunneling Shark and I would like you to do something other than that.Which you're doing now, kudos to you. Also, I did say that... by accusing you of tunneling, it's implied that you weren't looking at anybody else. That's kind of what tunneling is...
Are you sure? You don't seem very confident about it.

I see you've managed to misinterpret my snide response, bravo. Of course I'm sure. That's exactly what tunneling is. I was being snide about it because you didn't seem to understand what I meant by saying you were tunneling Shark.

You did, however point out something I missed.

Arathos: It's one thing to be tired, but to vote for someone you said was probably newbtown in the very same post? Come on. At the time, what made Shark a more likely candidate for scum than OB?
We've already been over this. Stop trying to deflect onto Arathos.
[/quote]

What the hell am I trying to deflect onto Arathos? Myself? That's the only thing I can think of. Seriously, stop scrambling. Especially since my actual question to him hadn't (to my knowledge) been answered before.

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I'd roleclaim, but that would just confuse everybody and get me lynched even harder than I'm about to be right now.

And the difference between being lynch hard and being lynched harder is...? I think you're just trying to stir up enough wine so that people start to rethink lynching you. This is a simple setup, how confusing can your claim be?
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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #258 on: October 17, 2011, 11:38:57 pm »

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What makes you think you can get away with threatening a town loss to avoid being lynched? You were even the one who pointed out that Shark was doing it. It's a scumtell, you know it is, and you did it anyway. You better have a damn good reason for it.
Not threatening, promising.
It's entirely impossible to defend myself at this point. I have been completely discredited as far as this game goes. I'm not even sure why I'm still hunting at this point, given that nobody's going to actually listen what I have to say instead of dismissing it as something from the mouth of a flailing scum.

Oh? Are you saying that our "vig" is actually a Serial Killer, leading to a 1v1v1 or 2v1v1 scenario that town can't win? Are you promising that one of those scenarios will occur? Because I can't think of any other scenario where town has no chance of victory.


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I'd roleclaim, but that would just confuse everybody and get me lynched even harder than I'm about to be right now.
I agree with the "lynch you harder" bit - any pro-town role you could claim would be Wine.
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Orangebottle

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 1 [9/9] - No gold for the wicked ?
« Reply #259 on: October 17, 2011, 11:40:40 pm »

It wasn't a big deal then and it shouldn't be now. The only reason you're bringing it up is because you're scrambling for something to get you off the block.
Since when has active lurking not been a big deal?
And no, I'm pretty convinced nothing will get me off the block at this point.

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I see you've managed to misinterpret my snide response, bravo. Of course I'm sure. That's exactly what tunneling is. I was being snide about it because you didn't seem to understand what I meant by saying you were tunneling Shark.
I understand exactly what 'You're tunneling Shark' means.

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What the hell am I trying to deflect onto Arathos? Myself? That's the only thing I can think of. Seriously, stop scrambling. Especially since my actual question to him hadn't (to my knowledge) been answered before.
My suspicion.

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I'd roleclaim, but that would just confuse everybody and get me lynched even harder than I'm about to be right now.

And the difference between being lynch hard and being lynched harder is...? I think you're just trying to stir up enough wine so that people start to rethink lynching you. This is a simple setup, how confusing can your claim be?
Very. At least, it confuses the hell out of me.

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What makes you think you can get away with threatening a town loss to avoid being lynched? You were even the one who pointed out that Shark was doing it. It's a scumtell, you know it is, and you did it anyway. You better have a damn good reason for it.
Not threatening, promising.
It's entirely impossible to defend myself at this point. I have been completely discredited as far as this game goes. I'm not even sure why I'm still hunting at this point, given that nobody's going to actually listen what I have to say instead of dismissing it as something from the mouth of a flailing scum.

Oh? Are you saying that our "vig" is actually a Serial Killer, leading to a 1v1v1 or 2v1v1 scenario that town can't win? Are you promising that one of those scenarios will occur? Because I can't think of any other scenario where town has no chance of victory.


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I'd roleclaim, but that would just confuse everybody and get me lynched even harder than I'm about to be right now.
I agree with the "lynch you harder" bit - any pro-town role you could claim would be Wine.
That is exactly what I'm saying.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #260 on: October 17, 2011, 11:47:17 pm »

Unvote. I choose to believe you. If you're lying, so help me God you will hang tomorrow. What do you know?
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I don't know how it works. It does.
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YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
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If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Orangebottle

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #261 on: October 17, 2011, 11:51:23 pm »

I am the Cop. I was roleblocked last night.

Now tell me how we can explain the double-kill that we woke to this morning barring Simple letting the scum do both in the same night(which there is no precedence for in a straightforward game).
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #262 on: October 17, 2011, 11:57:23 pm »

Quote from: Mafiascum wiki - Roleblocker
Variations

A Mafia Roleblocker may or may not be allowed to perform the mafia kill the same Night they are also performing a roleblock. (This applies to other Mafia roles as well.) The decision of whether to allow the last Mafioso to kill and use their role at the same time is usually based on what would make the game better-balanced. In Newbie games, the Mafia Roleblocker is allowed to perform both only if they are the last member of their team left.

I'll believe your claim, but it doesn't help us all that much (yet), and I was rather hoping that it would paint a clearer image of your attention on Shark.

MOD: If the last Mafioso is a Roleblocker, are they allowed to perform both a block and their factional kill?
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
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If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Urist_McArathos

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #263 on: October 18, 2011, 12:04:47 am »

I am the Cop. I was roleblocked last night.

Now tell me how we can explain the double-kill that we woke to this morning barring Simple letting the scum do both in the same night(which there is no precedence for in a straightforward game).

Unvote

This is very interesting indeed...
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #264 on: October 18, 2011, 12:49:55 am »

Unvote for now.

Now tell me how we can explain the double-kill that we woke to this morning barring Simple letting the scum do both in the same night(which there is no precedence for in a straightforward game).

For small games with small scumteams having a single scum being able to nightkill and use their role isn't so uncommon.

Your claim is incomplete. Who were you planning on inspecting during Night 1?

And what kind of Cop gets roleblocked on Night 1? That's kind of unbelievable.

If somebody can counterclaim they should.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

Orangebottle

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #265 on: October 18, 2011, 12:58:57 am »

Unvote for now.

For small games with small scumteams having a single scum being able to nightkill and use their role isn't so uncommon.
I've never seen it happen before.

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Your claim is incomplete. Who were you planning on inspecting during Night 1?
Ah, I knew I forgot something.
Andrew.

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And what kind of Cop gets roleblocked on Night 1? That's kind of unbelievable.
Jim, how is it unbelievable that I got roleblocked on night one?
I just don't see it.

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If somebody can counterclaim they should.
That goes unsaid.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #266 on: October 18, 2011, 03:34:31 am »

I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, it just seems unlikely. The Roleblocker would have to have a really lucky guess, which is perfectly possible.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

Simple

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #267 on: October 18, 2011, 05:10:50 am »

MOD: If the last Mafioso is a Roleblocker, are they allowed to perform both a block and their factional kill?
Yes.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #268 on: October 18, 2011, 01:52:24 pm »

Mod: If multiple killers select the same target, does the second one find the target already dead or do they have to select another target?

Orangebottle, I noticed some things that don't seem to add up:

-If you had been correct about the roleblock/nightkill scenario, why would you assume that both the mafia and the SK would hit town? What about the actual vig (who would have to exist in your scenario)? It is entirely possible that two killers could try to kill the same person, considering that three out of five living players would have kills, and if one of the two people killed in that case was scum, town would still be able to win. Or the roleblocker could have blocked someone instead of performing a kill. So why were you "promising" a town loss?
-Why did you choose to target Andrew? He had a rather large "Vig Me" sign on his back, so if there was a vig (or a SK who wanted to pose as one), then investigating Andrew would have been a waste of a night action.
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Shark

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Re: Wild West Mafia - Day 2 [6/9] - You could use some coffins.
« Reply #269 on: October 18, 2011, 02:18:44 pm »

Unvote for the moment. I'll need to reread all these new posts in detail...

Orangebottle, are you sure that you were roleblocked, or did your investigation simply return nothing because andrew died? This might be a really dumb question but I don't know how roleblocking works.

My question is why orange is roleclaiming. If he's telling the truth and we lynch someone else/no lynch, he's probably going to be killed by scum anyway. If he lives through the night, it'll be highly questionable, unless because of doctors or something.

Any questions anyone asked me that i'm missing? I do that far too often. I remember jim asked me something but I couldn't find the post.


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