Alright, finally free from work.
Firstly, questions that need answerin'.
Oh fuck, we have a SK.
That Other Urist, what do you think about this?
I think we have either a SK or Vigilante. Unless I'm missing something, it's impossible to tell which with 100% certainty, right? If so, then we are speculating based on the night kills. Jim makes a pretty convincing argument, but it's not worth exploring the matter any further. I stand by my statement that demanding a vig-claim now is both a bad move and a major scumtell.
The only other questions I've been asked are about my absence. I've explained that already.
OrangebottleYou asked for my picks/opinions.
Jim: Impossible for me to read so far. Town Jim and Scum Jim are pretty much identical. The hard part is telling if his cases hold water or not; Jim tunnels his scumpicks as Town because he's certain he nailed them. Scum Jim does the same thing because he mislynches often enough as Town that nobody questions when he tunnels and is wrong. Both times he's aggressive with strong, sound cases.
Native: Town vibe; he's been questioning your extremely shaky start to the day, and been active enough and looking around enough to seem seirous about scumhunting.
Urist Imiknorris: Possible scum. I haven't like some of your hunting today, but it's taken a turn for the much-better. Still got my eye on you, though.
Shark: Screaming newb vibes, I'm guessing newb Town who's trying very hard to play the game "right" without knowing too much what that is, not so much trying to act Town. A lot of his fuck-ups and tripping over his own words seem to reinforce the fact that he's town helplessly trying to stop doing stupid shit. If he's not a newb, he's doing an impressive job of acting enough like one to fly right off my radar.
Orangebottle: You're a tough one to read, here. You've got some town activity going on, but your hunting seems...off, to me.
I've been following the day as best as I can, and I'm torn between Shark and Orangebottle. So, some probing to help me decide which of you deserves to swing once and for all. I'll start with my top pick for scum.
SharkYou're flailing, and clearly afraid of being lynched and trying hard to avoid it. Why are you spending the day defending yourself instead of hunting down the remaining scum, and proving to the rest of us it's them, not you, we should be lynching? Why aren't you building a case?
Random sidenote I just thought of: If the mysterious killer is a serial killer pretending to be a vigilante, if you guys mislynch on me today, there is literally no way for town to win unless the SK kills the scum and you guys lynch the SK the next day.
Let's hope it's a vigil.
This is a bullshit appeal to the Town. "Guys, if you kill me we could be completely screwed! You can't kill me!" First off, it's wrong (as has been thoroughly pointed out by everyone else tearing apart your logic here). Secondly, it requires two assumptions we simply aren't sharing:
1) That it's a crafty SK we're after, not a Vigilante.
2) That your lynch would be a mislynch.
Random sidenote I just thought of: If the mysterious killer is a serial killer pretending to be a vigilante, if you guys mislynch on me today, there is literally no way for town to win unless the SK kills the scum and you guys lynch the SK the next day.
Let's hope it's a vigil.
Alright. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt here.
Who's this mysterious killer, and why?
And why do you think they haven't claimed vigilante yet?
Check out the first post. Vigil and SK are both possible roles.
There were 2 night kills, so we have once of them in this game.
Vigilante is a pretty safe thing to claim because you can kill anyone who would counter claim. It's either that the vigil doesn't want to be killed by the mafia, or that the person is a SK. If they're an SK, then it's MYLO today, unless scum kills SK.
If anyone's got a vig claim, it would help.
Also orangebottle I was thinking of some hypothetical situations while walking the dog.
Let's assume in these situations I get lynched as a result of your argument.
I'm also assuming that running an aggresive campaign against someone, which you are doing to me, is scummy if they turn out to be town.
1.I'm scum, you're town. You win.
2.I'm town, you're scum, 3rd guy is vigil. Running a very aggresive campaign against someone who ends up being town would raise a lot of suspicion against you. If the vigil doesn't kill you, the last day will be 2 town and you, unless the vigil doesn't kill for whatever reason, if they're allowed to. You can win, but it doesn't seem likely to me unless everyone wants you alive for something, because if I get lynched it'll be your fault. The scum in this situation would prolly not be lynched or vig killed because there's not much suspicion toward Jim/Native/Urist/Urist
3.I'm town, you're scum, 3rd guy is SK. SK are forced to kill in many setups, i'm assuming that. If he misses you, the final day will be him, you, and one town, meaning you win, unless you kill him at night. You have a better chance of winning than if this is a vigilante.
4.I'm town, you're town, 3rd is vigil. This is pointless and your fault for lynching me. If the vigil misses the scum, it'll be you, another town, and a scum. Suspicion will probably be high on you for lynching me, a town. You probably lose.
5.I'm town, you're town, 3rd is SK. If the SK kills the scum, town has a chance to lynch him last day. If SK kills a town, mafia wins. You probably lose.
6.I'm town, you're vigil. This situation will not happen because you're wondering why vigil hasn't been claimed. If you ARE the vigil, good luck finding the scum, you'd have to shoot him during the night, or town would be suspicious of you for getting a town killed. Scum in this situation is prolly someone like jim or one of the urists and is unlikely to get lynched because there's not much suspicion to them.
7.I'm town or scum, you're SK You're trying to kill the scum so you have a chance at winning. To have a chance to win you have to get him lynched today or kill him at night tommorow. If you don't get him killed, last day will be you, a scum, and a town if the scum doesn't kill you at night. Scum outnumbers town, they win.
8.I'm vigil, you're town. I'd just claim vigil so town would know there's not an SK. If i'm really vig, next day is MYLO.
9.I'm SK. I'd be unable to claim vigil, scum would kill me. If you're scum, you win unless you get lynched the next day. If you're town, you have to deal with a MYLO.
If no one claims vigil, someone is prolly a killer. This leaves situations 1,3,5,7,9 unless we get a vig claim. I'm assuming SK has to kill like in many setups. (I know epicmafia forces killer to kill and it's generally beneficial to kill)
In situation 1, you win.
In situation 3, you're scum, and you'd be going for me because i'm the easiest to lynch and you're trying to get a town or the SK lynched. If this situation is true, if the SK is suspicious of you you're screwed. You win if the SK kills town, unless you kill the SK at night, making the final day 2 town and you. It's a toss up.
In situation 5, you lose unless SK gets lucky and kills the scum. Not likely. You probably lose.
In situation 7, you have to lynch the scum today, or have to pick correctly out of 4 night targets, AND not have the scum target you. Not likely. You probably lose.
In situation 9, looks good if you're scum. Otherwise, bad.
So because these situations look pretty bad for you, besides 1, I say we put our argument on hold and look at other people, you need to lynch the correct person today to win.
Now, the reason I did all this?
Normally i'd be willing to sacrifice myself if it means we get the scum but until we get a vig claim, there's an SK. It's MYLO unless scum finds the SK. I can't afford to let myself die.
In the situations where you're scum or SK, you have a really good reason to lead the lynch today. SK needs to get the scum to have a chance. Scum needs to attract attention on other people.
In the situations where you're town, why would you be so desperate to get the correct lynch today? You've been hounding on my ass the whole day no matter what I say, ignoring every other person. At least examine them.
You have time for this elaborate and ultimately useless crap, but no time to find flaws and tells or scummy behavior to explore? You are WAY too concerned with your defense, Shark. You've also pretty blatantly pushed for a vig-claim. Despite backpedaling a bit with your "they don't have to, but it would help", you've continued to encourage the vigilante to claim by saying it would help, we can only get one more kill anyway, etc. You're rationalizing why it's a good idea, when it's been repeated over and over that it isn't. My remark about viewing this as unforgivably scummy wasn't an idle threat, Shark. If you don't have a damn good reason for being so encouraging of a Vig claim, I have no choice but to view it as a scummy move to help you identify a night kill target. Also, UI back there raised a good point: if your fight with Orangebottle is a town-town tunnel match, why don't you unvote him? Any particular reason you're voting a townie while hinting at the benefits of a vig-claim?
OrangebottleYour behavior is odd, to me, to say the least. I won't fault your arguments themselves, since they don't seem to be that poor.
For accusing me of trying too hard to look town, you sure look an awful lot like you're trying to out-town everybody else, what with how you're giving everybody shit for anything you can grasp at in a needlessly hostile way.
This is a big problem I have with you so far. You seem overly concerned with pointing out everything people are doing that you find odd, regardless of severity. You seem like you're trying to make sure we all see how super-aware you are of everyone and what they need to do to be good players, like you're ICing in here. We don't need a role model, Orange. What are you trying to prove?
Yes. Exactly then. By giving so much advice to the newguys, they're going to trust you and think you're more likely to be town. It's something i tried as scum in BMXVI and it worked wonderfully.
This is a tactic you tried in a BM game, where learning to play is valued above trying to win. This is not a BM game, it is a take-no-prisoners play to win battle royale. Ergo, Jim (if he is scum) has just as much reason to crush the hapless newbies under his bootheel than to rescue them. Explain to me how a new, flailing player like Shark is more useful to Scum Jim alive than dead (seeing as how he's really the only newbie left)? If you can't, then how can you expect me to believe Jim would bother some drawn-out confidence building crap that could backfire or required him to lob softballs and be helpful, when he could just squash this newtown and move one lynch closer to LYLO?
I personally think it's a crock of shit. Jim wasn't being a complete, relentless prick to the clearly in-over-their-heads new guys. While this IS out of the ordinary for his meta (Jim is always a complete, relentless prick), how is it not, I don't know, maybe being nice to the new people so they don't run away crying and this board loses MORE potential players? It seems like a huge stretch to turn a little courtesy into some convoluted scum plot.