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[Shark]

You guys are setting up this situation in your heads where whatever I answer is interpreted as scummy, this lose-lose situation. It doesn't matter what I say or do, you just don't want to hear it.

Orangebottle says I was scummy because I didn't switch from noodle quickly enough. Diakron's saying i'm scummy for not staying on him. Either way, one of of you if going to yell at me for it. Also, orangebottle is completely ignoring the parts where I point how he's being a hypocrite in his campaign against me, and native ignores that and jumps on the train.

I decided to harass andrew because diakron already slipped up, and noodle wasn't responding. Apparently, according to orangebottle, that isn't hunting. Could you explain why? Because I was, just in case he turned out to be scum. And don't tell me I should have been hunting diak because there was nothing I could think of to ask him that we didn't know, and he stopped posted. So what did you WANT me to do in your eyes that isn't scummy? Because you told me that staying on noodle was scummy, attacking andrew was scummy, and voting diak was scummy. There is no one I could have voted that would have made you think i'm not scummy, which is bullshit logic.

Native's kinda active lurking a bit, like urist said, although the part where is got ninja'd by me is legit. However, orangebottle is protecting him solely because native took his vote off of orange and is now questioning me. This shows that the ONLY thing orangebottle cares about is getting me lynched, seeing how he set up this lose-lose scenario and protects people who might be against me.

So i'm going to ask this again.

Orangebottle, what the hell do you have against me? Did I kick your dog or something?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Diakron's saying i'm scummy for not staying on him.

?

[Shark]

Mistype. Pretend that's "native" because I was trying to say native was saying i'm scummy for not staying on him.

Shit, I wish I could edit the post but i'm pretty sure that's against the rules for obvious reasons. Now orangebottle's gonna ignore this post and ask me why I said diakron in the above post.

[Simple]

Day 2

Votecount:
-Urist_McArathos: Urist Imiknorris
-Jim Groovester:
-Orangebottle: Jim Groovester, Shark
-Urist Imiknorris:
-NativeForeigner:
-Shark: Orangebottle

Not Voting : Urist_McArathos,NativeForeigner

3 more to extend, 5  more to shorten.
The Day will end Wednesday 8 PM GMT.

[Orangebottle]

You guys are setting up this situation in your heads where whatever I answer is interpreted as scummy, this lose-lose situation. It doesn't matter what I say or do, you just don't want to hear it.

Um. No. You just slipped under pressure, 'sall.

Wait, this is scummy! Die scum!^{just kidding}

Orangebottle says I was scummy because I didn't switch from noodle quickly enough. Diakron's saying i'm scummy for not staying on him. Either way, one of of you if going to yell at me for it. Also, orangebottle is completely ignoring the parts where I point how he's being a hypocrite in his campaign against me, and native ignores that and jumps on the train.

No, i'm saying you're scummy because you switched from the person you were most suspicious of. To end the day, not to lynch scum. That is very scummy.

I decided to harass andrew because diakron already slipped up, and noodle wasn't responding. Apparently, according to orangebottle, that isn't hunting. Could you explain why? Because I was, just in case he turned out to be scum. And don't tell me I should have been hunting diak because there was nothing I could think of to ask him that we didn't know, and he stopped posted. So what did you WANT me to do in your eyes that isn't scummy? Because you told me that staying on noodle was scummy, attacking andrew was scummy, and voting diak was scummy. There is no one I could have voted that would have made you think i'm not scummy, which is bullshit logic.

I have already explained why it isn't really hunting. You asked him questions to which the answers were already obvious. You should've kept your vote on Noodlerex(as he was the most suspicious in your eyes) while hunting others. You could've gone after Imiknorris, Jim, Arathos, Native, Musicalcakes, Andrew...
Instead you asked andrew some pointless questions. If you had asked him something that didn't have an obvious answer(and you had kept your vote on Noodlerex) then you'd look a lot less scummy than you do. However, that more recent slip with lynch reasons has me convinced.

Native's kinda active lurking a bit, like urist said, although the part where is got ninja'd by me is legit. However, orangebottle is protecting him solely because native took his vote off of orange and is now questioning me. This shows that the ONLY thing orangebottle cares about is getting me lynched, seeing how he set up this lose-lose scenario and protects people who might be against me.

Hey Shark.

Let's see...

Shark is looking fairly scummish, but that might just be inexperience.
McArathos is online now, and I hope it's to make some contribution, as he hasn't done so yet today.
Native's argument is almost identical to Shark's, and he's done almost nothing else today. Active lurking at its finest.

Okay. Are you going to develop the reasons behind your vote, or are you just going to sit there?
It's rare that people are convinced by a one-line-wonder.
PPE:Oh, look. It's...something. Huh. I can't really tell what. Looks like an argument with little content and a weak base.

Tell me, does that look like i'm protecting Native to you?
Because to me it looks like I'm encouraging Imiknorris to scumhunt native. Huh. How odd.

So i'm going to ask this again.

Orangebottle, what the hell do you have against me? Did I kick your dog or something?

It's simple, really. I think you're scum. When I think someone is scum, I go all-out. It's just how I play.

Mistype. Pretend that's "native" because I was trying to say native was saying i'm scummy for not staying on him.

Shit, I wish I could edit the post but i'm pretty sure that's against the rules for obvious reasons. Now orangebottle's gonna ignore this post and ask me why I said diakron in the above post.

You can't edit your post. But you can EBWOP(Edit By Way of Post). Just type:

EBWOP: Native's saying i'm scummy for not staying on him.

[Shark]

"No, i'm saying you're scummy because you switched from the person you were most suspicious of. To end the day, not to lynch scum. That is very scummy."

Stop saying that and tell me why it was scummy, you never post any reasons. .__.
Also, how was it "To end the day, not to lynch scum."?
There's two scum. One was diak. It was still lynching someone suspicious, just not as suspicious.

Random sidenote I just thought of: If the mysterious killer is a serial killer pretending to be a vigilante, if you guys mislynch on me today, there is literally no way for town to win unless the SK kills the scum and you guys lynch the SK the next day.

Let's hope it's a vigil.

[Orangebottle]

"No, i'm saying you're scummy because you switched from the person you were most suspicious of. To end the day, not to lynch scum. That is very scummy."

Stop saying that and tell me why it was scummy, you never post any reasons. .__.
Also, how was it "To end the day, not to lynch scum."?
There's two scum. One was diak. It was still lynching someone suspicious, just not as suspicious.

I have already told you why it's scummy. Who's the non-reading hypocrite now?

So, you were voting to end the day, not to lynch scum. Nice. See, that's not a town attribute at all. Town votes to lynch scum. Scum votes to lynch town and get to the night phase faster so they can kill someone. If you had truly thought Noodlerex was the scummiest, you should've left your vote there, and continued to hunt other people without it.

As for your second question, you said it yourself.

You stress how I acted scummy for jumping on the diak train for no reason. Maybe you if read my earlier post, you'd see that I was hoping that the day would end. Some games have a rule where enough votes automatically end a day. I didn't think anything else was going to happen that day, and I wanted to see if I could speed up the game.

Imiknorris: you should probably do something while waiting for Arathos to get here. Besides twiddling your thumbs.
Arathos: Where the hell are you?
Jim: Where'd you run off to?

[Orangebottle]

Random sidenote I just thought of: If the mysterious killer is a serial killer pretending to be a vigilante, if you guys mislynch on me today, there is literally no way for town to win unless the SK kills the scum and you guys lynch the SK the next day.

Let's hope it's a vigil.

Alright. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt here.
Who's this mysterious killer, and why?
And why do you think they haven't claimed vigilante yet?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Mod: Prod McArathos please.

Native, what's with this burden-of-proof bullshit? You should know by now that it's town's job to prove whether someone's scum, not the other way around.

[Urist_McArathos]

Very well.

McArathos, get in here. Are you going to participate? You were online half an hour ago, but you haven't bothered to show up here. What's wrong? Are you trying to lay low and avoid suspicion? It ain't working.

PFPI'm working 17 to 20 hours a day this week, in the kitchen.  I cannot post freely.   I check the thread with my smartphone when I can to stay abreast of the thread, so I'm not behind when I get home.  That's why I show up online.  You'll get a decent response when I'm home.  If that's not good enough, I don't care.  My job is more important than mafia.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Okay, that explains McArathos' lurking, although seriously? 17-20 hours a day? How do they even expect you to sleep? I'm looking forward to your eventual decent response, and hopefully it will be more convincing than a somewhat alarmingly large number.

Jim, anything to add? What's your opinion on Orangebottle's response to your questions? Why aren't you posting?

[NativeForeigner]

Shark: 1) Haven't hopped on the wagon just yet. 2) You ignored my questions in my last post.

Imiknorris: He wasn't doing anything to defend himself, just complaining about how he messed up. It's absolutely NOT town's job to prove somebody's not scum if everybody thinks he's scum. It just doesn't work that way, nobody thinks it's a mislynch, so nobody's going to say anything about it. You can't just sit back and let town prove your towniness, you've gotta put some effort in defending yourself, something he wasn't doing.

It's interesting that you think that way. What makes you think it's town's job to prove the townhood of someone else? Doesn't that just seem like babysitting to you?

[Urist_McArathos]

Urist short answer, they don't care.  We're critically understaffed, but payroll refuses to authorize new hires.  I'll have a nice wall of text tonight, early Sunday at the latest.  That's why I'm checking in do often: I seriously cannot read three days of posts AND write a reply in one night.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Imiknorris: He wasn't doing anything to defend himself, just complaining about how he messed up. It's absolutely NOT town's job to prove somebody's not scum if everybody thinks he's scum. It just doesn't work that way, nobody thinks it's a mislynch, so nobody's going to say anything about it. You can't just sit back and let town prove your towniness, you've gotta put some effort in defending yourself, something he wasn't doing.

It's interesting that you think that way. What makes you think it's town's job to prove the townhood of someone else? Doesn't that just seem like babysitting to you?

I should have been more specific - it's the accuser's job to prove that the town are scum. The burden of proof is on them, not the person they're accusing.

[Shark]

Random sidenote I just thought of: If the mysterious killer is a serial killer pretending to be a vigilante, if you guys mislynch on me today, there is literally no way for town to win unless the SK kills the scum and you guys lynch the SK the next day.

Let's hope it's a vigil.

Alright. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt here.
Who's this mysterious killer, and why?
And why do you think they haven't claimed vigilante yet?

Check out the first post. Vigil and SK are both possible roles.
There were 2 night kills, so we have once of them in this game.
Vigilante is a pretty safe thing to claim because you can kill anyone who would counter claim. It's either that the vigil doesn't want to be killed by the mafia, or that the person is a SK. If they're an SK, then it's MYLO today, unless scum kills SK.

If anyone's got a vig claim, it would help.

Also orangebottle I was thinking of some hypothetical situations while walking the dog.

Let's assume in these situations I get lynched as a result of your argument.
I'm also assuming that running an aggresive campaign against someone, which you are doing to me, is scummy if they turn out to be town.

1.I'm scum, you're town. You win.

2.I'm town, you're scum, 3rd guy is vigil. Running a very aggresive campaign against someone who ends up being town would raise a lot of suspicion against you. If the vigil doesn't kill you, the last day will be 2 town and you, unless the vigil doesn't kill for whatever reason, if they're allowed to. You can win, but it doesn't seem likely to me unless everyone wants you alive for something, because if I get lynched it'll be your fault. The scum in this situation would prolly not be lynched or vig killed because there's not much suspicion toward Jim/Native/Urist/Urist

3.I'm town, you're scum, 3rd guy is SK. SK are forced to kill in many setups, i'm assuming that. If he misses you, the final day will be him, you, and one town, meaning you win, unless you kill him at night. You have a better chance of winning than if this is a vigilante.

4.I'm town, you're town, 3rd is vigil. This is pointless and your fault for lynching me. If the vigil misses the scum, it'll be you, another town, and a scum. Suspicion will probably be high on you for lynching me, a town. You probably lose.

5.I'm town, you're town, 3rd is SK. If the SK kills the scum, town has a chance to lynch him last day. If SK kills a town, mafia wins. You probably lose.

6.I'm town, you're vigil. This situation will not happen because you're wondering why vigil hasn't been claimed. If you ARE the vigil, good luck finding the scum, you'd have to shoot him during the night, or town would be suspicious of you for getting a town killed. Scum in this situation is prolly someone like jim or one of the urists and is unlikely to get lynched because there's not much suspicion to them.

7.I'm town or scum, you're SK You're trying to kill the scum so you have a chance at winning. To have a chance to win you have to get him lynched today or kill him at night tommorow. If you don't get him killed, last day will be you, a scum, and a town if the scum doesn't kill you at night. Scum outnumbers town, they win.

8.I'm vigil, you're town. I'd just claim vigil so town would know there's not an SK. If i'm really vig, next day is MYLO.

9.I'm SK. I'd be unable to claim vigil, scum would kill me. If you're scum, you win unless you get lynched the next day. If you're town, you have to deal with a MYLO.

If no one claims vigil, someone is prolly a killer. This leaves situations 1,3,5,7,9 unless we get a vig claim. I'm assuming SK has to kill like in many setups. (I know epicmafia forces killer to kill and it's generally beneficial to kill)

In situation 1, you win.

In situation 3, you're scum, and you'd be going for me because i'm the easiest to lynch and you're trying to get a town or the SK lynched. If this situation is true, if the SK is suspicious of you you're screwed. You win if the SK kills town, unless you kill the SK at night, making the final day 2 town and you. It's a toss up.

In situation 5, you lose unless SK gets lucky and kills the scum. Not likely. You probably lose.

In situation 7, you have to lynch the scum today, or have to pick correctly out of 4 night targets, AND not have the scum target you. Not likely. You probably lose.

In situation 9, looks good if you're scum. Otherwise, bad.

So because these situations look pretty bad for you, besides 1, I say we put our argument on hold and look at other people, you need to lynch the correct person today to win.

Now, the reason I did all this?

Normally i'd be willing to sacrifice myself if it means we get the scum but until we get a vig claim, there's an SK. It's MYLO unless scum finds the SK. I can't afford to let myself die.

In the situations where you're scum or SK, you have a really good reason to lead the lynch today. SK needs to get the scum to have a chance. Scum needs to attract attention on other people.

In the situations where you're town, why would you be so desperate to get the correct lynch today? You've been hounding on my ass the whole day no matter what I say, ignoring every other person. At least examine them.