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[Jim Groovester]

Because it makes more sense that way. Scum would leave him alive to mislynch, a Serial Killer would kill somebody more powerful who could catch him, but a Vigilante would kill somebody he suspects, and everybody suspected Andrew425.

If it's not a Vigilante, then the Serial Killer is trying to masquerade as a Vigilante, but the reasoning for Andrew425 is the same.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I'm going to counter that with one of your very own quotes:

You don't know what the scum's motives were for trying to kill anyone, so don't try to supply your own. You will be wrong.

I will admit that it makes sense for scum to not NK Andrew. I'll then point out that nightkills are composed entirely of wine, and you are assuming competent scum. What makes you so sure it was the vig?

[Jim Groovester]

Having it the other way around seems really far-fetched. Scum killing Andrew425? Vigilante killing musicalcakes? Both the Vigilante and the Scum are incompetent? It just... doesn't work.

The reason I said what I said there is to deter new players from drawing leads and targets from the nightkill. Those are the sorts of conclusions that are damaging when looking at the nightkill. E.G., "Player x was grilling player y, player x got killed, player y must be scum." That's terribad reasoning since guessing who did the nightkill and their motives never goes anywhere because it's impossible to know why the scum made that decision.

Sometimes, though, the reasoning behind a night kill is apparent. For example, I was killed in the last Beginner's Mafia. Why? Because I am a scary badass motherfucker. However, that's very general, and questions like, why Night 2, and anything more specific can't be reliably answered and are better left unasked.

Blah blah point is even considering everything I've told you in a Beginner's Mafia where I was trying to make sure you avoided common pitfalls with broad generalizations to keep it simple and not clot your mind with a bunch of exceptional cases I still think a Vigilante did it.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I guess this is a place where Occam's razor really should be applied.

Shark, you said you were suspicious of Noodlerex. What do you think of his replacement?

Orangebottle, care to come up with an original case, or perhaps question Shark?

[Shark]

I was rolefishing because I didn't realize it was scummy until too late, i'm not the best player.

Also I jumped back on the diak train because it was obvious andrew wasn't going to be lynched and I was hoping having a large enough vote on a player would automatically end the day, and there was really nothing more to discuss.

Also

I guess this is a place where Occam's razor really should be applied.

Shark, you said you were suspicious of Noodlerex. What do you think of his replacement?

Orangebottle, care to come up with an original case, or perhaps question Shark?

I don't know anything about orangebottle really yet simpley because of how little he's posted, but I can't say I like him because it looks like he might start a train on me, he's making up reasons for my actions :/

Also orangebottle I was TRYING to use my vote for scumhunting. "I put my vote an andrew to try and prod him into saying things" is a quote from me but i'm too lazy to find the original post, so I got it from something YOU posted while accusing me of not scumhunting....

Orangebottle. It seems to me like he's trying to get attention off of him. This is related to the fact that next to andrew and diak, I was most suspicious of noodle and now you have his role.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Native, where'd you go? I saw you online recently.

[Shark]

Diakron. Do I really need to list my reasons for voting obvscum?


Andrew: I don't like how you were trying to save diakron back there. It's like you were subtly trying to either call musicalcakes scum or protect your scumbuddy.

Either way, you definitely need to be in a beginner's game or two.


I'm going to be rereading a few times and forming some more opinions.

Orange, don't be a hypocrite. Apparently you don't have to use your vote as pressure, and just jump on the train but I have to for the the entire day. I know you came in late, but come on :/

Okay i'm done harassing orange until he replies.

[NativeForeigner]

Native, where'd you go? I saw you online recently.

I've been busy recently and I dislike neglecting one mafia in favor of another.

Anyway, I have a feeling that the second kill was a vig, not a SK.

Anyway, Orangebottle for attacking Shark for rolefishing when he wasn't and for voting scum.

Orange: You say that Shark could have used his vote for pressure (which would have been useless) instead of using it to vote Dia, but you used your vote to vote Dia as well. In fact, you were the last one to vote him, you offered no reason other than "it should be obvious" and it seemed tacked on. If you think any votes on Dia after he was already in the lead were useless, then why did you vote for him and not to "pressure" anybody else?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Native, do you have anything constructive to add or are you just going to parrot Shark?

[NativeForeigner]

Native, do you have anything constructive to add or are you just going to parrot Shark?

If you're talking about his most recent post, I got ninja'd.

[Orangebottle]

Spoiler: defense (click to show/hide)

I think Shark is scum because of his attempted rolefishing, there.

Idle speculation about roles really isn't rolefishing, especially for somebody who's new like Shark who probably doesn't know any better. (Although it gets close to rolefishing.)

But I guess that won't stop you from repeating what McArathos said about it, for whatever reason. To look active and fluff up your attack probably.

And voting diakron for the sake of voting diakron, even though diakron had more than enough votes at that point and Shark could've used his vote as pressure for scumhunting.

No, when the day rolls to night, every players' vote should be on the person they suspect, not floating around as pressure votes. Provided Shark actually suspected Diakron, then he hasn't done anything wrong by voting him at the end of the day.

Meanwhile, I recall that his vote was floating around for pressure (on Andrew425) for a good portion of Day 1, so you're accusing him for not doing something he did.

So what are you giving him crap for again? It looks like absolutely nothing to me.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Orangebottle.

My logic is thus: rolefishing is scummy. Anything bordering rolefishing is therefore scummy.

And yes, I do need to look active, what after the person I replaced lurking most of day 1. To stave off the people who have the mentality of,"Oh, his predecessor was lurking so hard this replacement MUST be scum!".

I don't know anything about orangebottle really yet simpley because of how little he's posted, but I can't say I like him because it looks like he might start a train on me, he's making up reasons for my actions :/

Also orangebottle I was TRYING to use my vote for scumhunting. "I put my vote an andrew to try and prod him into saying things" is a quote from me but i'm too lazy to find the original post, so I got it from something YOU posted while accusing me of not scumhunting....

Orangebottle. It seems to me like he's trying to get attention off of him. This is related to the fact that next to andrew and diak, I was most suspicious of noodle and now you have his role.

This is not a place to be lazy, Shark. You should actually quote something if you want to put in a quote.

You should know that I am not noodlerex. He and I are not the same person. I don't know what his motive for lurking was, but it wasn't being scum.

Orange, don't be a hypocrite. Apparently you don't have to use your vote as pressure, and just jump on the train but I have to for the the entire day. I know you came in late, but come on :/

Okay i'm done harassing orange until he replies.

Anyway, Orangebottle for attacking Shark for rolefishing when he wasn't and for voting scum.

Orange: You say that Shark could have used his vote for pressure (which would have been useless) instead of using it to vote Dia, but you used your vote to vote Dia as well. In fact, you were the last one to vote him, you offered no reason other than "it should be obvious" and it seemed tacked on. If you think any votes on Dia after he was already in the lead were useless, then why did you vote for him and not to "pressure" anybody else?

I joined in at the very end of the day, and had little time to pressure anybody else. Also, as I said above, I needed to look more active than my predecessor was, for obvious reasons.

Native, I already have two people voting for me for those exact same reasons. Why would I possibly need a third?

Shark:

Let's talk.

You were passive for most of day one. Incredibly so. Your initial vote for Noodlerex was there even after he answered your question, while you had ample time to go pressure someone else. Instead, you lazily leave your vote on him because he's lurking.

My vote is still on noodlerex until he speaks up.

Then you needlessly 'scumhunt' Andrew when someone has already asked those questions(which had obvious answers). In fact, most of your 'scumhunt' post is a quote and context.

Unvote.
Andrew245

Andrew really sticks out right now.

"And there I have it, by trying to place me in a box you seem to be going on the offensive thus indicating a need to shift the blame to someone other then diakron, perhaps trying to save him from a certain death?"

The context of that quote is that he's trying to accuse musical, who he was talking to, of saving diakron. And now he's egging on musical to save diak. He's getting at something and I can't figure it out. It sounds really scummy to me and I need to hear more.

Andrew, what are you trying to tell musical and why is your vote still on diak?

After that you 'jump back on' the Diakron train-
But you never were on it, were you? This was the first time you voted for Diakron.

And just now, you say you voted for Diakron not because he was suspicious, but because your current target obviously wasn't going to get lynched. This clearly contradicts the post where you voted for diakron.

Unvote
Diakron

Jumping back on the diakron train. I put my vote an andrew to try and prod him into saying things, but diak's more suspicious overall, and stopped posting.

That post also contradicts your most recent post, where you say:

I was most suspicious of noodle and now you have his role.

So Shark, why are you lying to us? Is it because you have no genuine suspicions of your own? Because it seems to me like the only reason you voted for Diakron was the need to distance yourself from obvscum.

IN ESSENCE:

1.You were incredibly passive on day 1.
2.You had no reason for voting Diakron. He claimed scum after you voted for him.
3.You are a liar.

[NativeForeigner]

Hmmm.

I still don't get it. One of your arguments against Shark is that he had no reason for voting Diakron. But you also voted Diakron and were the very last one to do so. What's your reason? Why is it okay in your eyes to attack Shark for voting Diakron (who flipped scum) but not get attacked yourself for doing the same thing?

You said yourself that voting Diakron was useless, since he was already going to get lynched. So why didn't you start hunting for the rest of the scumteam instead?

[Orangebottle]

Hmmm.

I still don't get it. One of your arguments against Shark is that he had no reason for voting Diakron. But you also voted Diakron and were the very last one to do so. What's your reason? Why is it okay in your eyes to attack Shark for voting Diakron (who flipped scum) but not get attacked yourself for doing the same thing?

I joined in at the very end of the day, and had little time to pressure anybody else. Also, as I said above, I needed to look more active than my predecessor was, for obvious reasons.

I said this in my last post. See the spoiler labeled "Defense"? Yeah.

You said yourself that voting Diakron was useless, since he was already going to get lynched. So why didn't you start hunting for the rest of the scumteam instead?

And, I presented an alternate case on Andrew when I voted diakron. Something for him to respond to, had the day not ended. Of course, he was a newb, and proved to be a newb townie, but I found his actions more indicative of newb scum, myself.

I'd like to know why you didn't read half of my post.

[NativeForeigner]

I did read it. Your reasoning was God-awful. I wanted more. If you wanted to appear more active, then why do something you consider useless?

[Diakron]

No! No Don't kill me! My partner is *Gurgle gurgle*