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[Roraborialisforealis]

That was the thing, every soldier on the field came out with leather jerkins and a club, but the rich would come out in the hoplite dress.  Bronze chestplate, shield and spear and they would be able to demolish anyone that stood in their path. Only the merchant class (the elite) could afford to have such weapons and armor. Plus, they had the free time to even train for war, that is why the elite class had all the power. They had the money to buy the weaponry.

Iron was too brittle, it would break too easily. But when they made a way to make efficient weapons from iron that wouldn't shatter (by adding carbon), everyone could afford a good weapon, because iron was abundant.

But! When the full plate mail came around, truly on the lords and the best knights had full sets of plate mail because they were expensive. Very, very expensive. However, it was more likely to get you through a battle. The standard soldier didn't have metal armor, just metal weapons. Steel was produced in small amounts, once again for only the very rich.

Bronze had held much better edges then iron! In fact, the dawn of iron weaponry was belied to be when someone figured out how to get iron sharp in the first place! (This is also believed to be tied to the fall of the roman empire, or so I learned in AP classes about a year ago.)
Until some advanced tempering came about steel was even more brittle. It wasn't 100% better till the 1800's truly (some process starting with b... Bessemer?),It was just harder and able to get sharper before then, with tempering providing slight relief. Then it was also practical to mass produce.

[They Got Leader]

Yes, Bessemer was the one that made it possible to mass produce steel in the late 1800's.

I don't think iron had a part in the Roman empire breaking apart. It was a part of what made it great. Anyone could join the Legions and gain citizenry.


And that would be such a weird mod, haha. I would like to see 500 soldiers duke it out, DF style.

[Roraborialisforealis]

Yes, Bessemer was the one that made it possible to mass produce steel in the late 1800's.

I don't think iron had a part in the Roman empire breaking apart. It was a part of what made it great. Anyone could join the Legions and gain citizenry.


And that would be such a weird mod, haha. I would like to see 500 soldiers duke it out, DF style.

I remember for a fact that the process for making sharp iron did not originate in the roman empire, and has been traced to be further north east (Where the migrating barbarian tribes came from that kinda... Screwed up the west roman empire.)

[They Got Leader]

Yes, Bessemer was the one that made it possible to mass produce steel in the late 1800's.

I don't think iron had a part in the Roman empire breaking apart. It was a part of what made it great. Anyone could join the Legions and gain citizenry.


And that would be such a weird mod, haha. I would like to see 500 soldiers duke it out, DF style.

I remember for a fact that the process for making sharp iron did not originate in the roman empire, and has been traced to be further north east (Where the migrating barbarian tribes came from that kinda... Screwed up the west roman empire.)

Really? I don't remember that...

[Roraborialisforealis]

I recently had a European history class. Had I still the books I would actually be referencing this stuff. Might look with a copy of some of the early Western Heritage (Somewhat recent History textbook. Heavy as hell.) chapters and look for it.

[They Got Leader]

I took a History of the Western World 2 semesters ago, but I already forgot when iron became a key player, shame.

[Roraborialisforealis]

It was a summer ago for me. I distinctly remember that the dieing roman's were a late adopter (They refused to change.)

[Girlinhat]

As I've heard "You're not smart if you know things, it's about knowing how to find out things."  Books hold knowledge, meh.  Knowing how to go to the library and find the book (or google...) is what counts.  lmgtfy is my favorite insult.

[Roraborialisforealis]

Yeah. Its kinda late, but I will look it up again.

[They Got Leader]

Awesome, I would love to know the results when you find them.

And imgtfy?

[SirAaronIII]

If leather were stronger than it currently was, then the "I'm going to make realistic leather and non-metal weapons" thing Girlinhat mentioned earlier would be easier. Plus if non-metal weapons actually existed in game.

I think that'd be a great playstyle if modded in, combined with some metal weapons (copper swords and such). If only I had the modding knowledge to do something like that.

EDIT: Is, not it. Oopsie.

[They Got Leader]

If leather were stronger than it currently it, then the "I'm going to make realistic leather and non-metal weapons" thing Girlinhat mentioned earlier would be easier. Plus if non-metal weapons actually existed in game.

I think that'd be a great playstyle if modded in, combined with some metal weapons (copper swords and such). If only I had the modding knowledge to do something like that.

Agreed. It would definitely change the game quite a bit, but potentially in a good way.

[Roraborialisforealis]

If leather were stronger than it currently it, then the "I'm going to make realistic leather and non-metal weapons" thing Girlinhat mentioned earlier would be easier. Plus if non-metal weapons actually existed in game.

I think that'd be a great playstyle if modded in, combined with some metal weapons (copper swords and such). If only I had the modding knowledge to do something like that.

Agreed. It would definitely change the game quite a bit, but potentially in a good way.

Perhaps a wood splinters syndrome on wounding that causes pain?

[Erkki]

That was the thing, every soldier on the field came out with leather jerkins and a club, but the rich would come out in the hoplite dress.  Bronze chestplate, shield and spear and they would be able to demolish anyone that stood in their path. Only the merchant class (the elite) could afford to have such weapons and armor. Plus, they had the free time to even train for war, that is why the elite class had all the power. They had the money to buy the weaponry.

Iron was too brittle, it would break too easily. But when they made a way to make efficient weapons from iron that wouldn't shatter (by adding carbon), everyone could afford a good weapon, because iron was abundant.

But! When the full plate mail came around, truly on the lords and the best knights had full sets of plate mail because they were expensive. Very, very expensive. However, it was more likely to get you through a battle. The standard soldier didn't have metal armor, just metal weapons. Steel was produced in small amounts, once again for only the very rich.

Bronze had held much better edges then iron! In fact, the dawn of iron weaponry was belied to be when someone figured out how to get iron sharp in the first place! (This is also believed to be tied to the fall of the roman empire, or so I learned in AP classes about a year ago.)
Until some advanced tempering came about steel was even more brittle. It wasn't 100% better till the 1800's truly (some process starting with b... Bessemer?),It was just harder and able to get sharper before then, with tempering providing slight relief. Then it was also practical to mass produce.

AFAIK the iron did and does hold the edge better. The reason why ancient smiths continued using bronze instead of iron was the considerably lower melting temperature required - copper and bronze needed about 400 degrees Celsius less than iron, and high quality bronze was less brittle and easier to cast (the liquid bronze running quicker than copper or iron) than the low-temperature melted iron that still contained lots of impurities and that would make more brittle, even if cheaper, stuff. In the end it wasnt so much about iron being better in everything, but tin being a rare metal to find in the ancient times making many city-states and empires reliant on importing it - which would often not be an option during times of war, especially once the agricultural methods started improving around year 300-ish BC and the armies could start waging war around the year instead of just winter and summer when the men werent needed as farmers(esp. in Greek city states).

[Nameless Archon]

And imgtfy?

It's an L, actually.