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[greycat]

Just for the record, "dying" is what you do when you stop living, while "dyeing" is making cloth more colorful.  English sucks.

[forsaken1111]

Technically 'dying' is what you do right up until you actually die, at which point you cannot do anything else because you no longer exist in the sense of a corporeal animate self.

[Xen0n]

Just for the record, "dying" is what you do when you stop living, while "dyeing" is making cloth more colorful.  English sucks.

Technically 'dying' is what you do right up until you actually die, at which point you cannot do anything else because you no longer exist in the sense of a corporeal animate self.

Spoiler: I am so sorry (click to show/hide)

I do agree that english sucks and found both these comments to be very entertaining and enlightening

Spoiler: P.S. Alternate ending
(click to show/hide)

[forsaken1111]

I think English is a highly entertaining and creative language. You can spin so many turns of phrase with the words in English, and if you really grasp the language you can have a lot of fun with it.

Also you can make words up and nobody knows, and if the word becomes popular it becomes a real word magically, and if you use a word incorrectly often enough you suddenly become correct!

[Xen0n]

I think English is a highly entertaining and creative language. You can spin so many turns of phrase with the words in English, and if you really grasp the language you can have a lot of fun with it.

Also you can make words up and nobody knows, and if the word becomes popular it becomes a real word magically, and if you use a word incorrectly often enough you suddenly become correct!

Exactly!  Also, hooray for the Euphemism Treadmill!  Language is fun!

[sGdYy409L]

So that means that if i channel my whole "surface" z-level and then build a floor all over it, the mud/dirt below will grow surface plants/crops? fi this is true i will !!SCIENCE!! the hell out of it.

You'll still need another solid layer of soil underneath it - while subterranean plants only require a soil floor (as of 0.31.19), surface plants still require an unmined soil wall within a 2-tile radius on the Z-level beneath them.

I started a flat 2x2 embark and (almost*) completely mined out the first and second subterranean soil layers. The result: Trees grow outdoors, mushroom trees grow in the first and second underground layers. So as of 0.31.25 this seems not to be true anymore.

* ~ 3 7x7 areas are unmined because of stairs and murky pools. The surface trees continue to grow everywhere though.



A related Question: What is your strategy of dealing with shrubs? Will shrubs block tree growth? So is it advisable to remove them, or will my dwarfs trample too many tree samplings my doing this? (I am not interested in the shrubs, just the trees).

[Xen0n]

So that means that if i channel my whole "surface" z-level and then build a floor all over it, the mud/dirt below will grow surface plants/crops? fi this is true i will !!SCIENCE!! the hell out of it.

You'll still need another solid layer of soil underneath it - while subterranean plants only require a soil floor (as of 0.31.19), surface plants still require an unmined soil wall within a 2-tile radius on the Z-level beneath them.

I started a flat 2x2 embark and (almost*) completely mined out the first and second subterranean soil layers. The result: Trees grow outdoors, mushroom trees grow in the first and second underground layers. So as of 0.31.25 this seems not to be true anymore.

* ~ 3 7x7 areas are unmined because of stairs and murky pools. The surface trees continue to grow everywhere though.



A related Question: What is your strategy of dealing with shrubs? Will shrubs block tree growth? So is it advisable to remove them, or will my dwarfs trample too many tree samplings my doing this? (I am not interested in the shrubs, just the trees).

Hmm I do believe shrubs block tree growth, since you can only have one or the other on a single tile.  I've also heard others recommend harvesting shrubs to free up 'slots' in a 'plant cap/limit' so there are more available slots for trees to fill.  I would guess sporadic shrub harvesting should be fine without trampling young trees to death, as long as the area was otherwise traffic-free.

Soo... to answer your question... I'm not sure 

[Quietust]

I started a flat 2x2 embark and (almost*) completely mined out the first and second subterranean soil layers. The result: Trees grow outdoors, mushroom trees grow in the first and second underground layers. So as of 0.31.25 this seems not to be true anymore.

Huh, perhaps it did change - I just repeated the test, and while saplings initially only appeared along the map edge, they eventually started to appear elsewhere.

[sGdYy409L]

I started a flat 2x2 embark and (almost*) completely mined out the first and second subterranean soil layers. The result: Trees grow outdoors, mushroom trees grow in the first and second underground layers. So as of 0.31.25 this seems not to be true anymore.

Huh, perhaps it did change - I just repeated the test, and while saplings initially only appeared along the map edge, they eventually started to appear elsewhere.

Actually I was not so careful to remove all saplings before starting the test. Thanks for verification.

[Rasputin]

Serves the lazy Dorf right, I mean how lazy/slow do up have to be in order to stay in a room long enough for a tree to grow and block you in???

[Flare]

If I wanted, I could cast gigantic floors of obsidian in successive layers above the map, then dig 'em out, flood them, expose to sunlight, and then go above one floor, right? Thus giving me 15 or 16 Z-levels of outdoor tree farm.

Unless you're dropping a huge obsidian structure of several hollowed out levels, which by the way won't be exposed to sunlight if they're on top of each other. If you want to drop then down individually, unless you have some way to stop it from crushing the one below it, I don't think a tile exposed to sunlight can be "brought back to life" if you dig out the obsidian on top of the crushed out level.

[Grumbledwarfskin]

Serves the lazy Dorf right, I mean how lazy/slow do up have to be in order to stay in a room long enough for a tree to grow and block you in???

With quantum trees, it's a little different, of course...if you ever find a sapling of a quantum tree, give it a wide berth, since you never know quite when it's going to grow into a tree proper: you might be impaled by a low-lying branch if you're not careful.

If I wanted, I could cast gigantic floors of obsidian in successive layers above the map, then dig 'em out, flood them, expose to sunlight, and then go above one floor, right? Thus giving me 15 or 16 Z-levels of outdoor tree farm.

Unless you're dropping a huge obsidian structure of several hollowed out levels, which by the way won't be exposed to sunlight if they're on top of each other. If you want to drop then down individually, unless you have some way to stop it from crushing the one below it, I don't think a tile exposed to sunlight can be "brought back to life" if you dig out the obsidian on top of the crushed out level.

I think the idea was to build a floor and walls above the ground, flood the floor with magma, cast it to obsidian, dig it out leaving an obsidian floor exposed to sunlight, muddy that floor to grow trees on, and then repeat on the next layer above. I don't think cave-ins were a part of the picture at all.

You might even be able to skip building the floor on the second, third, etc. layers if you cast two layers of obsidian and then dig out the lower one. The floor won't be exposed to sunlight in that case, but the game might already consider it 'sunlight-contaminated' if it marks squares with no floor in them at all as sunlight-contaminated, since it doesn't seem to ever un-mark them. Might require testing.

My thought on the new test results was, for anybody with above-ground-wood-loving nobles: the condoarborium is back on!

[Flare]

If I wanted, I could cast gigantic floors of obsidian in successive layers above the map, then dig 'em out, flood them, expose to sunlight, and then go above one floor, right? Thus giving me 15 or 16 Z-levels of outdoor tree farm.

Unless you're dropping a huge obsidian structure of several hollowed out levels, which by the way won't be exposed to sunlight if they're on top of each other. If you want to drop then down individually, unless you have some way to stop it from crushing the one below it, I don't think a tile exposed to sunlight can be "brought back to life" if you dig out the obsidian on top of the crushed out level.

I think the idea was to build a floor and walls above the ground, flood the floor with magma, cast it to obsidian, dig it out leaving an obsidian floor exposed to sunlight, muddy that floor to grow trees on, and then repeat on the next layer above. I don't think cave-ins were a part of the picture at all.

I'm quite confused. Is he casting it in obsidian for the sheer awesome factor and not for any sort of practicality? As I recall, muddy constructed floors will allow plants to grow on them if my aqueduct was any sort of indicator. Simply building the floors without having to mess with magma and muddying them should work.

[Tirion]

I'm quite confused. Is he casting it in obsidian for the sheer awesome factor and not for any sort of practicality? As I recall, muddy constructed floors will allow plants to grow on them if my aqueduct was any sort of indicator. Simply building the floors without having to mess with magma and muddying them should work.

HERETIC!!!

But yeah, it's way easier this way. Building a magma-safe pump stack, and a water pump stack from their respective reservoirs all the way up to several z-levels above ground, and the huge containing structure all from magma-safe materials is a royal pain in the ass, considering that you need several whole embark squares worth of mudded space for a truly effective tree farm.

OTOH it might still be easier to build if you have shallow magma and good river/shallow aquifer water sources, but no clay for unlimited floor building material. If it's big as in megaproject big, it might be easier to build 1 floor plus (x= number of desired z-levels) surrounding walls plus 2 pump stacks than (x= number of desired z-levels) floors.

[jaxler]

remember if trees grow so do those little purple mushrooms

yes if trees grow so do the plumpest of helmets

and for some PLUMP HLMENTS WILL FLOOD YOU WITH DEATH