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[Necro910]

My guess is that pressurized water would help at that...

Or the Necro910 method.

Indeed. 

[Teneb]

just smash them with a cave-in, lest a dwarf claims a ‼cave spider sock‼ (or if you decide to magma them anyway, check to see if there's any lignite/graphite things with them. remove those before applying magma)



EDIT: small typo corrected

[vyznev]

On a possibly related note, one merchant and bodyguard are parked away from the Depot in the bathtub in front of my hospital/well room.  The tub has only 3/7 water in it, so I don't think that's a problem.

I recently noticed that, while the wiki says that up to 4/7 water is safe to walk in, apparently dwarves* won't intentionally path through water deeper than 2/7.  My dumb engravers were all trapped in the future dining hall behind the 3/7 bathtub and complaining of thirst.  Try draining a bit of water from your tub and see if that helps.

* Actually, I'm playing as wizards in Wizard Tower, but I'm pretty sure there's no difference in pathfinding.

[Valdrax]

It says tehre's no depot access for most of the map but they have no trouble getting in?

Yes and no.  As I mentioned, normally they have full access to 80-90% of the map edge.  That means that they should have no trouble getting in when my drawbridge is down. 

However, when they first arrived, the drawbridge was up.  There is another path into my fortress through a 1-tile wide maze 2 z-levels beneath the drawbridge that is filled with traps to slaughter goblins.  (In between the drawbridge and maze levels is an overlooking, U-shaped fortification / archery range, with my hospital/well on the far side of the U.)  All but two of the merchants & pack animals pathed through the maze before I could get the drawbridge back down.

My guess is that pressurized water would help at that...

Unfortunately, my Trade Depot is very snugly surrounded on all sides by useful hallways.  It would be a multi-year effort to arrange that.

Or the Necro910 method.

NO.

I recently noticed that, while the wiki says that up to 4/7 water is safe to walk in, apparently dwarves* won't intentionally path through water deeper than 2/7.  My dumb engravers were all trapped in the future dining hall behind the 3/7 bathtub and complaining of thirst.  Try draining a bit of water from your tub and see if that helps.

Yes, they will path through 3/7 water.  I've used 3/7 bathtubs extensively on my forts, and even traders will path through them just fine.  They, however, will *not* path through a bathtub that has even a single tile of 4/7 water in it.  This is why you have to babysit filling the tubs.  I can't count the times I've had to drain one because I got distracted and it got just 1 or 2 buckets too many.

Anyway, I drained the hospital bathtub, and they're still hanging out there.  There is no Depot access to the hospital because I used up/down staircases for hallways, and I am not looking forward to resculpting the whole path to flat floors and ramps.

[Valdrax]

I've had instances of lingerers before if the packup and departure is interrupted by something, such as an ambush.  Never could figure out how to get them to leave in that case, though.

Now that is probably on point.  I did have an ambush get halfway across the drawbridge before being detected with the merchants still inside.  Did you try deconstructing the Trade Depot?  I'd like to know before accidentally stealing a bunch of crap I don't want.

Also, if I have to just kill them, is there any disadvantage to just using my military instead of tearing apart fortress to mechanical forces to do the job?

[Endiqua]

Yeah, I tried deconstructing the depot, I built bridges over any water in the way, I built roads to show them the way out...they just never left.  I just left them alone until and unless they went berserk, basically.  I just thought of it as they liked my fortress and moved in, and then got lonely for home. 

I think in the current version, if you target a dwarven trader/guard with your military and kill them, you end up with a loyalty cascade.  I am not entirely sure if this happens if they go berserk first, though.

[Ethnar]

I've had instances of lingerers before if the packup and departure is interrupted by something, such as an ambush.  Never could figure out how to get them to leave in that case, though.

Now that is probably on point.  I did have an ambush get halfway across the drawbridge before being detected with the merchants still inside.  Did you try deconstructing the Trade Depot?  I'd like to know before accidentally stealing a bunch of crap I don't want.

Also, if I have to just kill them, is there any disadvantage to just using my military instead of tearing apart fortress to mechanical forces to do the job?

If there's still stuff in the depot that is marked as belonging to merchants - see if the list shortens as time pass. If so - it means merchant is packing the stuff, however slowly he might be doing it, and he will be on his way one day.

If it doesn't shorten, well - you're stuck with them.

Now, don't attack them with military as they are dwarves and it will probably ruin your fortress (never tried it myself, but as mentioned in post above - loyalty cascade).
Stealing stuff has no real implication when it comes to dwarves in current version, afaik, so don't be troubled if you end up doing so.

Your best bet is to deconstruct Depot and hope they'll move on. If they don't - expect them to go crazy at one point. Might bring back Fun times.

Good luck and keep us updated.

[Melissia]

Sometimes I wish merchants WOULD go home because they ask for FAR too high profit margins.  I mean multiple grand profits from a single exchange...

[Endiqua]

I guess it's possible the remaining ones are still packing, but somehow I doubt it.  In my experience, at least, they say they're leaving, they all pack up, and when it's packed, that's when everybody walks off.  IOW, nobody walks out the door until it's all packed up.

Sometimes I wish merchants WOULD go home because they ask for FAR too high profit margins.  I mean multiple grand profits from a single exchange...

The only time I really ever had a problem was in the 2D version; sometimes I just didn't have enough to trade that first autumn.  By about year 3 or 4, I'm usually giving obscene amounts of profit without blinking an eye, either from food or cloth images or goblinite or crafts or green glass discs.  Just depends on what's going on.

Of note, if you have an inexperienced broker (which you generally do at the beginning unless you sink embark points into it), he's going to think your stuff is worth more than the traders do - he's going to be enthusiastically saying "Here's a 20-dorfbuck dolomite mug" and the traders are rolling their eyes and thinking "geez, that's worth 5 dorfbucks at most.  That fortress in the next mountain range has a way better broker than this chump.  This is gonna be a pain."

For my first year, I generally plan on giving the traders a really good profit margin.  If that means I can't buy as much, so be it.  Better than having them pack up and leave in disgust - I don't like stealing the goods from them, personally.

Mechanisms trade relatively well and skill up the mechanic at the same time.  Prepared meals command high prices.  Green glass discs are another awesome trade good.

[Ieb]

By any chance do you have locked doors or bridges that lead to the caverns?
I think I've once had traders who INSISTED on leaving through the caverns, even when the way out aboveground was perfectly usable.

[Valdrax]

Yeah, I tried deconstructing the depot, I built bridges over any water in the way, I built roads to show them the way out...they just never left.  I just left them alone until and unless they went berserk, basically.  I just thought of it as they liked my fortress and moved in, and then got lonely for home.

Aw, crap. And...

I think in the current version, if you target a dwarven trader/guard with your military and kill them, you end up with a loyalty cascade.  I am not entirely sure if this happens if they go berserk first, though.

Double crap.  I feared that was the case.  I'll be fine if they go berserk, I think, since it's okay to murder your own dwarves who fail strange moods or just succumb to their own misery.

If there's still stuff in the depot that is marked as belonging to merchants - see if the list shortens as time pass. If so - it means merchant is packing the stuff, however slowly he might be doing it, and he will be on his way one day.

If it doesn't shorten, well - you're stuck with them.

I'll have to try to pay close attention, but it's a *long* list of stuff in the Depot, so I'm not sure.

Stealing stuff has no real implication when it comes to dwarves in current version, afaik, so don't be troubled if you end up doing so.

It lowers their profit, which means they'll bring less stuff next time.  And I needs mah gypsum powdah!

Good luck and keep us updated.

Thanks, and will do.  Guess it's time to fire the game back up and go from here.

By any chance do you have locked doors or bridges that lead to the caverns?
I think I've once had traders who INSISTED on leaving through the caverns, even when the way out aboveground was perfectly usable.

Huh.  No, I don't.  I have breached the first & second cavern via stairs, but they're floored over.  (And there's a metal FB running around level 2 that I've got plans for once I've got some stuff taken care of.)

No, wait.  Crappity crap crap crapping crap.  I do have a drawbridge out into the caverns technically.  It's the bridges sealing off the magma-lock that drains off a nearby magma tube and feeds my screw pumps to my forges.  Oh, I hope that's not it.  Guess I've gotta open up cavern 1 and pray the FB has no path between caverns...

[ulan]

[Endiqua]

Waiiiit....where's the beard and the helmet?  Imposter gif!  Imposter gif!

[Steelgeek]

A slightly helpful bug - When merchants are loading, do a D - T (cut down trees) and just hold the left button down. They load up in a hurry and split. Also works for getting through a meeting quickly.
Kudos to the person who found it, whose name I've forgotten.

[Valdrax]

(Pull the lever)

Not much point.  Even if I let it drain out the top two levels of the volcano to where I dug into the side, that still wouldn't give a walkable path into cavern 1.  That's why I didn't think of it at first.