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Author Topic: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.  (Read 35660 times)

Melissia

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2011, 10:19:14 pm »

Thankfully I still have my other drawbridge and hall of traps (cage, weapon[wooden spikes], and stonefall) to as another line of defense. 
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Vehudur

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2011, 10:44:43 pm »

Wooden spikes are virtually useless, and ARE useless if the target has armor - replace them with metal ones ASAP.  Additionally, you do have your cage traps after the weapon traps, right?

(Besides that, these are just suggestions and not something you need to worry about right now.  You can easily do it without complex constructions and math to calculate fields of fire and stuff like that, but if you go through the effort for a fort you plan to have for a long time, it makes defense easymode.  However, I'd say, ignore most of the below for now unless you read a part of it and go "Oh, that would be an easy change, that's nice".)

Stonefall traps are nice, except for the reloading part.  If you have the extra materials, it is far better to use more weapon traps instead.  With that in mind, it's best to have several extra layers of stonefall traps if you do use them.  Weapon traps --> stonefall traps --> cage traps.  One advantage of stonefall traps is that you can do it all with rock - you need to spend no metal, and so (because rock is quite plentiful, natch) can be deployed in very, very large numbers.

If you're feeling creative, you can create a long, winding (single tile wide) side passage lined with traps as the main passage is sealed off by a drawbridge.  one end of the passage is before and one is after the drawbridge. 

If you're feeling malicious, you can have the area around your winding passage dug out, with a long, long drop (20z ensures 100% death rate) ensuring they stay on the path.  Or, they dodge the weapon traps off the edge and have a long fall.

You get bonus points if there is magma at the bottom.  You get double bonus points if you can drain the magma pit to collect the goblinite for melting.

Of course, because you didn't plan for it from the beging you may not have space for such an elaborate setup.  With your next fortress, keep defense in mind as you start - usually it means making the entrance hall some 25z long before you start branching off, which slows down initial hauling inside quite a bit but is worth it for the increased defensibility sometimes, depending on the map and how urgent moving inside is.  An alternate option is to seal off the first entrance after you complete a second, more defendable one.

If you have a canyon, long bridges give your marksdwarves good target practice for any crossing nasties.

Something people neglect sometimes is fields of fire - if you go that far (and you will likely need to in a really advanced fortress that will last several in-game decades), make sure there are no blind spots where your dwarves cannot shoot something in the area of the entrance.

Besides, elaborate defensive constructions are something to use all the stone you're going to get for.  And remember, this is just my take on it - in the end do what works for you, not what someone else tells you to do.
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Melissia

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2011, 10:50:12 pm »

I have the following setup:


WWWW
[BB]
[BB]
[BB]
[BB]
XDDX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX
XCSX
XSCX


I can easily take down the traps and re-arrange them, but 2x20 is pretty much set as my tunnel's size.

W = weapon, [] = walls, B = bridge, D = doors, C = cage, S = stonefall, X = dirt.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 10:52:34 pm by Melissia »
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Vehudur

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2011, 11:00:39 pm »

I would certainly put the cage traps last and replace the stonefall traps with weapon traps.  It's up to you if the effort is worth it or not.
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Melissia

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2011, 11:03:38 pm »

Are wooden spike traps better than stonefall traps?

My metal industry is still focused on producing weapons and armor for my dwarves.  I might spare copper or other lesser metal, but iron is definitely reserved.
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Vehudur

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2011, 11:14:19 pm »

I'm not sure.  Neither is very powerful.  Get high-quality non-wooden (even if not strong metal) weapons and you're solid regardless.  Even the weakest metal weapons are WAY stronger than most wood.

Do what you can, but don't worry about it immensely, you're probably not going to have many issues with earlier attacks anyways.  If in doubt, leave it as it is until you can make iron / steel weapons for traps.  This may be a while unless you find some more large ore veins....  how big of a map is it and what is mineral scarcity set at?
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Melissia

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2011, 11:35:52 pm »

Normal sized map, with a mineral abundance of "everywhere". 

Ugh.  Stupid traders.  I was trying to get rid of a bunch of my stuff, and they kept refusing the trade no matter how high their profits were (they had almost two grand at the last offer).  Then they threw a hissy fit and left.
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Vehudur

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2011, 11:50:01 pm »

Normal sized map, with a mineral abundance of "everywhere". 

Ugh.  Stupid traders.  I was trying to get rid of a bunch of my stuff, and they kept refusing the trade no matter how high their profits were (they had almost two grand at the last offer).  Then they threw a hissy fit and left.

Yeah I hate traders sometimes.

Alright, can you upload a save so I may take a look?   I'm just genuinely curious, and I won't spoil the locations of any minerals or anything for you, don't worry.

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Roraborialisforealis

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2011, 11:53:18 pm »

Are wooden spike traps better than stonefall traps?

My metal industry is still focused on producing weapons and armor for my dwarves.  I might spare copper or other lesser metal, but iron is definitely reserved.
Spike traps are more flexible, as they can be reused as often as your lever-dwarf can seize up on your lever and are very stabby. Stone traps are cheap but trigger on being walked on, and need to be reset. Weapon traps are a happy marriage without the lever-ability. Put serrated disks in them and anything short of a clown will get gibbed (given that the clown cant fly.)
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Melissia

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2011, 11:57:31 pm »

So weapon traps with copper/bronze serrated disks should work fine?  I have plenty of both, from melting down material bought from the previous human and dwarf traders (not this one obviously). 


An unhappy hammerdwarf ate a legendary meal and went to being quite content :D 

So now none of my dwarves are unhappy, and most are actually happy, with many ecstatics.  Only one Fine, and that's my marksdwarf captain.  He's still complaining about a long patrol cleansing out draltha in the first cavern level...

I also completed a brewing request, thirty more drinks for my dwarves.  Strawberry  and dwarven wine galore!  Hopefully with all this good food and good drink being produced (in excess, really), he'll perk right up.
Normal sized map, with a mineral abundance of "everywhere". 

Ugh.  Stupid traders.  I was trying to get rid of a bunch of my stuff, and they kept refusing the trade no matter how high their profits were (they had almost two grand at the last offer).  Then they threw a hissy fit and left.

Yeah I hate traders sometimes.

Alright, can you upload a save so I may take a look?   I'm just genuinely curious, and I won't spoil the locations of any minerals or anything for you, don't worry.
I guess?  I'll do it after class tomorrow.  About to go to bed.
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EveryZig

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2011, 12:01:39 am »

Keep in mind the difference between Upright Spikes (which need a lever but never jam) and Weapon Traps armed with menacing spikes.
From my experience, wooden spike traps are much better than stonefall. Wooden spikes are decent against weaker enemies, while stonefall traps in the current version are fairly ineffective against everything. If you are using weapon traps, you wood can be quite decent if it is made into spiked balls (which, along with serrated disks, attack three times each instead of one time).

Also remember to area-forbid the traps when an attack comes so your dwarfs don't run out to reload them mid-siege.
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Melissia

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2011, 12:04:38 am »

Yeah, wood is much easier for me to gather right now than metal.  Apparently my dwarves don't really like digging and only do it as the absolute last thing if they have nothing else.  Even if they only have Mining activated they'll often mill around for a while before digging.

I'm making some more copper picks to try to encourage group digging projects...
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Melissia

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2011, 12:05:22 am »

Conversation canceled:  Sleeping.
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EveryZig

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2011, 12:06:54 am »

I usually find metal much easier to come by than wood. I go for magma early, and don't send my dwarves outside to cut wood because I am too paranoid. (And with the fortress defense mod, they actually would get murdered instantly, like most of the caravans that visit...)
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Roraborialisforealis

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Re: Melissia's ventures into the greater world of Dwarf Fortress.
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2011, 12:08:21 am »

Yeah, wood is much easier for me to gather right now than metal.  Apparently my dwarves don't really like digging and only do it as the absolute last thing if they have nothing else.  Even if they only have Mining activated they'll often mill around for a while before digging.

I'm making some more copper picks to try to encourage group digging projects...
Have your miners NEVER haul.
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