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[Xen0n]

I'm expecting someone to mod in a crematorium immediately, which takes your common un-butherables like goblins and elves, and destroys the corpse

The whole reason sentients aren't butcherable is ethics, but watch any zombie apocalypse and you'll realize that the ethics of dealing with the dead adapt to the new reality.  Oh, your best buddy got scratched by a zombie?  The old ethics were that you looked for a bandage.  The new ethics are that you look for an axe.  What was once unthinkable, becomes routine necessity.

When necromancers roam the land, maybe you still won't eat goblins after killing them, but you'll sure as hell mince them (or otherwise destroy the corpse without having to resort to a mod).  If you can't, I'd call that a bug.

Oh, and if metal equipment takes more bars to create, then goblinite will yield more bars, no? Mining that first batch of goblinite will be harder, but after a certain point you'll have plenty of metal.  Or if you don't, it's because the goblin's economy will have crashed due to their dwarfite mining project failing, so they'll be coming after you armed only with pointed sticks and bone armor.

I have no idea how Toady will make it work when / if he puts forging back to the 'multiple bars' method, but I can say that with the current 'workaround' I'm using, objects seem to yield the same amount of metal when melted.  The 'workaround' essentially corrects what appears to be a 'typo' in the raws to make weapons and armour take multiple bars again, so if correcting that 'typo' is all Toady does, goblinite reserves may not increase.  Which is fine, since we dwarves are spoiled.  Guess we'll just have to kill more goblins then! 

Hm.  Is a magma moat a fire risk for any nearby plants?  Or a melting risk for dirt and clay?

Not sure how close magma needs to be to ignite plants, but I can say that at least floors/walls/constructions made from dirt, clay, wood, or any other material will not be harmed by magma.  Buildings, on the other hand, generally should be made of magma safe materials (except for closed doors, raised bridges etc.)

[Melissia]

Think a magma moat that's three deep.. 7/7 on the first space, with two empty spaces above it would cause any forest fires?

[KtosoX]

Think a magma moat that's three deep.. 7/7 on the first space, with two empty spaces above it would cause any forest fires?

Nope. Because in DF, trees are fire proof

[Mr.Elendig]

Think a magma moat that's three deep.. 7/7 on the first space, with two empty spaces above it would cause any forest fires?

I have trees in my magma moat because I forgot to pave it/was slow to add the magma. I really have to drain it one day soon to chop those down. They ruin the look.

[Melissia]

Heh, neat.  So when the zombies and tunnelers come, I'm gonna build a 3-wide water moat around my entrance (which itself will be made of magma-proof stone block walls which can easily be fortified) that will be replaced by a magma moat.

[Psieye]

The long-distant changes that will break me? Factions (religious and political) and Psychology. There may come a time where we will look at Mandates as a happy memory of a long-distant tragedy we overcame. Instead we will be looking at conflicting demands by different factions with some dwarves going mad because they belong to multiple factions at once.

The Temple of the Native Gold demands the gold veins are not mined out because they art holy. The Metalworkers' Guild demands 400 gold bars be smelted and put to use this year to make jobs. The Miner's Guild demands more labour for its members and if there is no ore (which wouldn't be a sacriledge to dig out) on the map, then they want you to send out an expedition to the neighbouring lands to make jobs and bring back ore. The Baron wants to make a good impression back at the Mountainhomes and demands you invade the elves by sending out an army. Some dwarf who hates the Baron forges a fake report saying a large goblin-human allied army is marching towards the fort and wants you to bring in all the hill dwarves around you into the fort for siege shelter. The Tavern is complaining of a lack of Dwarven Beer and wants you to immediately distill more, but this other Shrine demands more Sugar to be produced as they need it for their monthly ritual.

Complete speculation, but it is food for thought. I do wonder if it may be possible for your dwarves to try and overthrow you or keep you out of the loop if you do a bad job of guiding them.


In the shorter term? The things we'll mod ourselves will break me. I can just see Fortress Defence mod getting a lot of changes to make use of curses/interactions for more unique challenges. One of the first mods ever will be booze that properly stones your dwarves. The Elves will be modded to bring Happy Powder and the Humans to bring potions.

Once Stalkers get added in, I wonder if they'll affect fort mode too. Then it may not matter whether you're doing proper corpse disposal, the act of injust killing alone will create a Night Creature to haunt the location.

[Melissia]

What do you mean properly stones dwarves?  Dwarves don't get drunk, they merely escape sobriety!

[Psieye]

What do you mean properly stones dwarves?  Dwarves don't get drunk, they merely escape sobriety!

That's because there was no way for booze to have any effect when consumed so far. Now that ingestion-activated syndromes will be in, modders will make booze DO things to you. This next release will also be the one to vastly increase the scope of syndromes. Be it making dwarves move 3 times faster, vomit all over, have their liver rot, grow extra hair somewhere or whatever else, modders are going to DO things with booze (and powders, food and other liquids).

[Melissia]

I know what you mean.  I'm just saying that making such a mod is just... theme-breaking.  Unless you're playing humans or... any non-dwarves.

It'd be like making a DF mod where there's no magma ...

[Psieye]

Themes change as the versions rack up. Used to be that elephants were the great harbringers of FUN. Then it was carp and unicorns. For a while it was immortal forgotten beasts and titans. Now it's badgers.


You do remind me though: I think I read that syndromes could have a racial modifier to them? So once we get Taverns we can laugh as human travellers wipe to what dwarves are so used to it tastes like saliva.

[Kirbypowered]

I know what you mean.  I'm just saying that making such a mod is just... theme-breaking.  Unless you're playing humans or... any non-dwarves.

It'd be like making a DF mod where there's no magma ...

They could mod in "bad" booze that leads to nasty side effects and the like, by using possibly poisonous plants. You could make all plants brewable too, making it Fun to learn which ones are dangerous. I can just imagine a Random FB syndrome occurring whenever such booze is made.

[Vehudur]

About magma... 

It can't start forest fires, but it can start grass fires.  However, as of right now they require the next tile to be burnt to be adjacent and thus cannot travel up or down z-levels.  Whole lot of help this is to you if you're on a flat map, though.

Another thing to remember is that pumping magma to the surface is difficult and a HUGE fps hit, partly due to the amount of moving fluid but it has more to do with all the thermal calculations involved.

You could make a magma moat look like this:

X=dirt or rock, W= wall, G = bridge,  \ or / = ramp, M = delicious, delicious magma. F= fortification

Code: [Select]

          F (fortification for your marksdwarves)
          W
   GGGGGGGG (raises to the right to seal the wall, natch)
XXX\      W
XXXX\     W
XXXXX\    W
XXXXXX\MMMF ***
XXXXXXX\MMW
XXXXXXXXXXW
*** This fortification is where magma is pumped in from the right.  You must be careful with magma that has been pressurized with a pump (magma doesn't normally have fluid pressure, which is funny if you know geology) because it can flood just as easily and just as quickly as water, but is a lot more !!FUN!!.

[EveryZig]

I know what you mean.  I'm just saying that making such a mod is just... theme-breaking.  Unless you're playing humans or... any non-dwarves.

It'd be like making a DF mod where there's no magma ...

Also you could mod in beneficial effects from the more difficult to produce kinds (like sunshine).

[Necro910]

I know what you mean.  I'm just saying that making such a mod is just... theme-breaking.  Unless you're playing humans or... any non-dwarves.

It'd be like making a DF mod where there's no magma ...

No... magma?

But... magma...

and the magma....

Magma?
MAGMAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Necro cancels post: Throwing tantrum.
An orthoclase floodgate has been destroyed!

[Makbeth]

Necro910 has prohibited the export of magma.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing creatures that can dig, bridge channels, and remove constructions.  The cheap, exploit-based tactics we use now will become obsolete and we'll actually have to carefully plan our defenses, so we may end up seeing things like star forts out of necessity rather than creativity.  Of course, if Toady doesn't fix the painfully slow rate at which walls and floors are built...