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[acetech09]

I did repeat the tests four times in the end, to verify the results - I only mentioned the first set because the four times I repeated the tests they always came out with only minor variance.

I'll probably do a more scientific (and gruelingly longer and more boring) test this evening.

[_DivideByZero_]

Now - the biggest question is how realistic is Toady's programming? His simulations are amazing, but he would still go by guesses and assumptions for how combat works, and how weapons work. Hell, even the scholars still just go by guesses and assumptions.
So, in other words, going by raws AND an understanding of how it really works, adamantine chain should be the best way to go, by a huge margin, so why isn't it?

I believe the tests were done regarding blunt weapons. Not edged. For edged weaponry, adamantine is certainly the best.

Can you give your insight or guess on edged weapons vs plate-mail (in real life)? I've always wanted to know

Thanks for the info, by the way.

[Corneria]

I did repeat the tests four times in the end, to verify the results - I only mentioned the first set because the four times I repeated the tests they always came out with only minor variance.

I'll probably do a more scientific (and gruelingly longer and more boring) test this evening.

I can lend some info.

100v100  in 1v1 format

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Addy Mail Shirt
53-47
Difference is negligible.

Steel Short Sword + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Steel Short Sword + Steel Breastplate
64-36
Mail shirts seem favorable against edged.

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Steel Breastplate
59-41
Possibly favorable for blunt as well.

[Roraborialisforealis]

I did repeat the tests four times in the end, to verify the results - I only mentioned the first set because the four times I repeated the tests they always came out with only minor variance.

I'll probably do a more scientific (and gruelingly longer and more boring) test this evening.

I can lend some info.

100v100  in 1v1 format

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Addy Mail Shirt
53-47
Difference is negligible.

Steel Short Sword + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Steel Short Sword + Steel Breastplate
64-36
Mail shirts seem favorable against edged.

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Steel Breastplate
59-41
Possibly favorable for blunt as well.

How fortunate that every dwarf may have both!

[Corneria]

How fortunate that every dwarf may have both!

First test implies addy isn't an upgrade (or at least not a significant one) against blunts. Other two were meant to answer the mail v plate thread (limited resources, large militaries, etc.)

[Corneria]

In addition:

Steel Short Sword + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Steel Short Sword + Addy Mail Shirt
57-42 (one room both dwarves died)

Things aren't looking good for addy in edged or blunt.
Fully armored + variable tests next.

[BeforeLifer]

sry if this was already said but platium is acculy in terms of weapons/armor its just under steel i belive. Now were is that guy whos sig shows every matirel from best to worse XD

[vyznev]

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Addy Mail Shirt
53-47
Difference is negligible.

Steel Short Sword + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Steel Short Sword + Steel Breastplate
64-36
Mail shirts seem favorable against edged.

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Steel Breastplate
59-41
Possibly favorable for blunt as well.

I ran some rather unscientific tests too (basically two long lines of dwarves facing each other in a 2 tile wide corridor).  I made all my dwarves adept in all combat skills and gave them silver war hammers and full adamantine armor and shields except for bodywear, which consisted of mail shirts with various materials.  Looking at the outcomes and combat reports, my tentative conclusions are:

• With that kind of equipment, mail shirts make very little difference.  In fact, in several tests, dwarves with no body armor beat those with various types of mail shirts.  I couldn't rule out the possibility that, under these circumstances, the weight penalty of a mail shirt outweighs its protective advantage, possibly regardless of material.
• Silver war hammers are nasty, and more than capable of inflicting serious damage even through adamantine armor.  To minimize variance in results, we should try to find a weapon/armor combo where, in the absence of any bodywear, most of the serious hits are on the torso.

I didn't test breastplates, though; I sort of assumed they'd be better than mail in any case, but in light of your results that assumption may not be warranted.

[Roraborialisforealis]

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Addy Mail Shirt
53-47
Difference is negligible.

Steel Short Sword + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Steel Short Sword + Steel Breastplate
64-36
Mail shirts seem favorable against edged.

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Steel Breastplate
59-41
Possibly favorable for blunt as well.

I ran some rather unscientific tests too (basically two long lines of dwarves facing each other in a 2 tile wide corridor).  I made all my dwarves adept in all combat skills and gave them silver war hammers and full adamantine armor and shields except for bodywear, which consisted of mail shirts with various materials.  Looking at the outcomes and combat reports, my tentative conclusions are:

• With that kind of equipment, mail shirts make very little difference.  In fact, in several tests, dwarves with no body armor beat those with various types of mail shirts.  I couldn't rule out the possibility that, under these circumstances, the weight penalty of a mail shirt outweighs its protective advantage, possibly regardless of material.
• Silver war hammers are nasty, and more than capable of inflicting serious damage even through adamantine armor.  To minimize variance in results, we should try to find a weapon/armor combo where, in the absence of any bodywear, most of the serious hits are on the torso.

I didn't test breastplates, though; I sort of assumed they'd be better than mail in any case, but in light of your results that assumption may not be warranted.

Ive always thought blunt weapons were for those soldiers that are so padded up to be a metal ball.

[ZeroSumHappiness]

1. Is it possible to construct an armor (or set of armor) that protects against /everything/ except the torso?
2. Can we make that armor indestructible and 100% effective at deflecting blows entirely?

Then we can test just weapon vs. torso armor.

[Corneria]

1. Is it possible to construct an armor (or set of armor) that protects against /everything/ except the torso?
2. Can we make that armor indestructible and 100% effective at deflecting blows entirely?

Then we can test just weapon vs. torso armor.

Slade armor is as  close as it gets, but requires modding and is ungodly heavy.

[Corneria]

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Addy Mail Shirt
53-47
Difference is negligible.

Steel Short Sword + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Steel Short Sword + Steel Breastplate
64-36
Mail shirts seem favorable against edged.

Silver War Hammer + Steel Mail Shirt vs. Silver War Hammer + Steel Breastplate
59-41
Possibly favorable for blunt as well.

I ran some rather unscientific tests too (basically two long lines of dwarves facing each other in a 2 tile wide corridor).  I made all my dwarves adept in all combat skills and gave them silver war hammers and full adamantine armor and shields except for bodywear, which consisted of mail shirts with various materials.  Looking at the outcomes and combat reports, my tentative conclusions are:

• With that kind of equipment, mail shirts make very little difference.  In fact, in several tests, dwarves with no body armor beat those with various types of mail shirts.  I couldn't rule out the possibility that, under these circumstances, the weight penalty of a mail shirt outweighs its protective advantage, possibly regardless of material.
• Silver war hammers are nasty, and more than capable of inflicting serious damage even through adamantine armor.  To minimize variance in results, we should try to find a weapon/armor combo where, in the absence of any bodywear, most of the serious hits are on the torso.

I didn't test breastplates, though; I sort of assumed they'd be better than mail in any case, but in light of your results that assumption may not be warranted.

The difference likely is related to the minimal armor. Mail shirts cover a larger area.

[Melissia]

Slade armor is as  close as it gets, but requires modding and is ungodly heavy.

So it's basically like your mother? 

Sorry... I really couldn't resist.  *goes to hide somewhere deep underground*

[Steelgeek]

Now - the biggest question is how realistic is Toady's programming? His simulations are amazing, but he would still go by guesses and assumptions for how combat works, and how weapons work. Hell, even the scholars still just go by guesses and assumptions.
So, in other words, going by raws AND an understanding of how it really works, adamantine chain should be the best way to go, by a huge margin, so why isn't it?

I believe the tests were done regarding blunt weapons. Not edged. For edged weaponry, adamantine is certainly the best.

Can you give your insight or guess on edged weapons vs plate-mail (in real life)? I've always wanted to know

Thanks for the info, by the way.

Define plate-mail. Plate armor? or chain with metal plates on it?

Slade armor is as  close as it gets, but requires modding and is ungodly heavy.

So it's basically like your mother? 

Sorry... I really couldn't resist.  *goes to hide somewhere deep underground*

*snerk*

[acetech09]

Plate-mail.

Isn't that what you receive when you order table pieces from an online vendor?