Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}  (Read 7150 times)

acetech09

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

As per this reply and following responses, there was the question brought up about how density affects chainmail armor's effectiveness in protecting against blunt force attacks.

Well, I did some arena testing, and here are my findings:

------------

It was originally stated that addy chainmail was the worst protection against blunt force attacks, compared to other metals, due to density. To determine the effect, I ran eighteen 5 vs 5 hammerdwarf matches, where one side would always have adamantine mail shirts 'n pants, while the other side was either copper-, bronze-, or iron-clad. I did the testing in 3 phases - Phase 1 which did six rounds with addy vs bronze, since bronze was a median of density in armor. I then tested copper, then iron.

Testing Phase 1 - Addy vs Bronze
   Addy won 5 matches, bronze won 1. It was pretty obvious that the bronzers were dying a lot faster than the addy dwarves were. The addy dwarves won with minimal injuries.

Testing Phase 2 - Addy vs Copper
   Copper 4, addy 2. I was slightly surprised, but then again - it fit the hypothesis perfectly. The denser copper pulled an advantage over adamantine in the competition.

Testing Phase 3 - Addy vs Iron
   Iron 3, Addy 3. The results were nearly even, with both sides winning 3 matches with similar injuries. I was expecting iron to do poorest, perhaps with no victories, since it was the lightest of the three typical metals.

As brought up by OcelotTango, he asked if a even denser metal, (silver) would be even better, so I tried:
Testing Phase 4 - Addy vs Platinum
   Platinum 3, Addy 3. Now the results are getting confusing... the densest bar metal in game preformed as well as iron... hrm...

Results:

    Results were slightly odd - after the first 2 tests I figured that the denser copper did better, the lighter bronze did worse, I expected iron to be the absolute worst because it was lighter than iron - but it turns out that the orders of density are different than the orders of effectiveness, but the theory had some proof in that the densest did the best, but alas, the lightest did not do the worse.

   After the platinum test, I discovered that density might not be the factor in these tests, since platinum is denser than copper but did worse. The key is to try to find a property that orders copper > iron,addy,platinum > bronze.

-------

Detailed Notes:
I took detailed test notes while experimenting, so if you want to read a dry and boring and not-proofread test log
Spoiler: It's right here. (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Just want to let you know that I just duplicated the test, and verified the gross win results, I didn't catalogue injuries, just wanted to increase the test pool - results were near identical this time around.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 10:14:27 pm by acetech09 »
Logged
I challenge you to a game of 'Hide the Sausage', to the death.

Vehudur

  • Bay Watcher
  • [evil]
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2011, 09:04:06 pm »

Thank you for your !!science!!.  *bows*
Logged
Quote
...and a third died in his bunk of natural causes - for a dagger in the heart quite naturally ends one's life.

I used to have an avatar, but I was told to remove it after it kept making people go insane.

acetech09

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2011, 09:06:50 pm »

It wasn't really !!Science!! though.

More of Science(has been struck down)
Logged
I challenge you to a game of 'Hide the Sausage', to the death.

Vehudur

  • Bay Watcher
  • [evil]
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2011, 09:10:06 pm »

You mean you didn't even have them fighting as magma encroached on the battlefield from around it?
Logged
Quote
...and a third died in his bunk of natural causes - for a dagger in the heart quite naturally ends one's life.

I used to have an avatar, but I was told to remove it after it kept making people go insane.

OcelotTango

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2011, 09:59:10 pm »

Hmmm, so what about a chain shirt made of silver, would that do better yet than the copper?
Logged

SirAaronIII

  • Bay Watcher
  • Western Romanticist
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2011, 10:08:08 pm »

It might, but it's not possible to make silver armor in Fort Mode.
Logged
"I want to watch the sun setting below the horizon, thinking about my significance in this world. That's my dream."

acetech09

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 10:14:07 pm »

edited w. platinum test - did platinum instead of silver for an extreme density test.
Logged
I challenge you to a game of 'Hide the Sausage', to the death.

That Guy Over There

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2011, 10:17:45 pm »

What about steel? Considering that it is the best overall metal I am interested in what it could do.

Also, what kind of hammers were the dwarves using?
Logged

ulan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 10:21:04 pm »

^
Hey guy above me "6 test chambers. In each chamber, 5 hammerdwarves with silver war hammers and adamantine mail shirt and chain leggings, vs. 5 hammerdwarves with silver war hammers and test material mail shirt and chain leggings. Will test adamantine vs. all armor materials."

I'll add in a bit with breastplates/shortswords

so with
6 addy chain shirt and leggings vs 6 addy breastplate and chain leggings ] silver war hammer, the breastplates won hands down 0-6 consistently with minimal injury which is expected

but then i went to try the same thing but with candy short swords and it came out as 5-0 survivors with more severe injuries

and that seemed to wrap things up, until I noticed that most of the strikes hit unarmored heads, feet, hands that combined with the fact that I didnt undo my mods to the game that made dwarves enrage I can pretty much say that all of my results are skewed. I may go on and try copper, bronze, steel, iron versions of this but I dunno
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 10:43:15 pm by ulan »
Logged

acetech09

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 10:56:18 pm »

We know that breastplates are a crapton better against blunt, and we know that swords will be better against unarmored extremities, but that wasn't the test.
Logged
I challenge you to a game of 'Hide the Sausage', to the death.

gzoker

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2011, 11:25:10 pm »

Just a quick test.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think it doesn't really matter the material of the mail shirt against blunt attacks.

Edit: Candy mail shirt vs nothing
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 11:37:26 pm by gzoker »
Logged
Active Interactions: RAIDER_MADNESS

ulan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2011, 11:40:46 pm »

We know that breastplates are a crapton better against blunt, and we know that swords will be better against unarmored extremities, but that wasn't the test.


I was trying to figure out how effective breastplates were against cutting weapons
Logged

o_O[WTFace]

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 03:13:43 am »

Keep in mind fights involving groups of heavily armored creatures are very strange.  I once did some tests involving two identical groups of 30 steel equipped creatures.  In one of the tests group1 won with 26/30 surviving, and only 1 or two serious injurious among survivors.

I recommend a big array of 1v1's if you start to see strange results.   
Logged
...likes Dwarf Fortresses for their terrifying features...

Mitchewawa

  • Bay Watcher
  • My pick is the pick that will pierce the heavens!
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2011, 05:45:58 am »

Hammers are more prone to wild chance due to either instant kill skull-crushings or instantly healed arse-paddling. With swords atleast cuts accumulate.

Multiple 1 on 1's would be the way to go.
Logged
Mitch cancels sleep: Interrupted by Clowns

Melissia

  • Bay Watcher
  • Confused noob having lots of fun!
    • View Profile
Re: Chainmail Material Blunt Force Protection Variance !!Science!! - {Spoilers}
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2011, 06:08:56 am »

So copper chainmail may actually be a decent starting armor for your dwarves?  Just asking, because that would make it much easier to outfit my new militia without having to wait until I can get steel or leather.
Logged
"If a job is worth doing, it's worth dying for."
-- Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine
Pages: [1] 2 3 4