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Author Topic: A little dilemma  (Read 4016 times)

Phmcw

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2011, 09:09:31 am »

So the choices are: one person in eternal bliss or no-one in eternal bliss?
Once again : in a literal reading of the bible (think WBC) only a few people go in heaven, therefore if you go to heaven , a lot are left behind, and you probably won't find anyone you know there. So not one person : you.
By their definition.
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In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.

Dsarker

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2011, 09:18:39 am »

So either you go to heaven, and no-one you care about is there (I do remember a passage saying that if you don't tell people what's they're doing wrong and help to correct them, you'll not go to heaven...but leaving that aside), or you go to hell, and you don't know if anyone you care about is in heaven, or in fact if anyone is in heaven at all.
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Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Dsarker

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2011, 09:20:55 am »

I would also cite John 14:2 against the 'only a few will get into heaven'.
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Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Phmcw

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2011, 12:33:20 pm »

Still...

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

John 15:6

The world's sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

John 15:9

and then fundies just love the apocalypse. Base yourself on that to answer.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 12:40:22 pm by Phmcw »
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Quote from: toady

In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.

Dsarker

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2011, 03:03:56 pm »

Still...

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

John 15:6

The world's sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

John 15:9

and then fundies just love the apocalypse. Base yourself on that to answer.

Doesn't mention anything about numbers.
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Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Jackrabbit

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2011, 04:58:06 pm »

To be perfectly honest, the concept of heaven was actually something of a dealbreaker for me back when I wasn't sure where my faith was, and it was partially responsible for me rejecting Christianity. The concept of heaven, I think, is never explained well. What I've heard includes:

-A place where you have heaps of fun and you're happy all the time
-A place where you join with God and become one with him and his glory
-Eternal bliss, joyous transendence ect et al

The problem with the first option is that being happy all the time forever sounds inherently suspicious, and of course I haven't heard it since I was a kid, since adults always seemed to associate it with 'the best theme park ever' in a way to make the concept accessible to us. I never got it, even then. What sort of theme park could be fun all the time?
The second option isn't what I want out of the afterlife. I want my time on earth to mean something, or at least to have had a bit of a point and if it all it was was an intermediate stage before I mindmeld with God, well, that's kind of depressing, actually. Interestingly, I'm not entirely sure 'melding' even comes into it. Catholic dogma is that you enter the glory of God once you die and the true joy of heaven comes from basking in his glory, as it were. It's kind of a confused issue, I guess.
The third one actually straight up scares me. Eternal bliss might not be a concept I can wrap my mind around but it sounds like I'd have to be fundamentally changed, mentally, to be permanently blissful and that's terrifying because then, as Phmcw, I wouldn't really be me. Then, of course, there's the same problem as the second option, as all my life on earth ends up amounting to just sitting around being pleased all the time. I'd much rather be working towards something then just basking all the time.

I have probably got something extremely wrong in this post, or at least misunderstood something about what was taught to me for the first sixteen years of my life and indeed is still being taught to me, so feel free to point it out.

As for my perfect afterlife, I think it would be reincarnation. I'm too attached to this planet to want to leave it permanently. There's so much beauty in the world that I'll never have time to see that I want to come back for another crack at it. Sure, there's inherent problems in this, like, say, coming back in Somalia, but at the same time, I think it's worth it, especially since I believe this universe is all we have.
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Hiiri

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2011, 02:08:39 pm »

The problem with the first option is that being happy all the time forever sounds inherently suspicious, and of course I haven't heard it since I was a kid, since adults always seemed to associate it with 'the best theme park ever' in a way to make the concept accessible to us. I never got it, even then. What sort of theme park could be fun all the time?

... or how can you feel happy all the time, if you don't have the brains to produce those feelings.

As for my perfect afterlife, I think it would be reincarnation. I'm too attached to this planet to want to leave it permanently. There's so much beauty in the world that I'll never have time to see that I want to come back for another crack at it. Sure, there's inherent problems in this, like, say, coming back in Somalia, but at the same time, I think it's worth it, especially since I believe this universe is all we have.

When we're here only once for a short time, that short time here is infinitely more precious. After you're dead, you won't feel unhappy about any of this. Enjoy it while you can and don't worry about things you won't feel sad about in the future.

As for the OP; I guess I'd choose bliss. I mean.. I can't feel unhappy about anything that I feel right now; it's not bliss if I miss my loved ones. Also, I'd probably commit suicide, as I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror and this "mere life" would lose all value. Good thing none of that is real, eh?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 02:10:32 pm by Hiiri »
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kaijyuu

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Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2011, 02:14:43 pm »

Reincarnation would be my "ideal" afterlife too. Preferably with a little intermediate time where I remember all my previous lives and can muse on all I've learned.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.
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