Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: A little dilemma  (Read 4023 times)

Dsarker

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ἱησους Χριστος Θεου Υἱος Σωτηρ
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 10:47:58 am »
Quote from: Phmcw on September 17, 2011, 10:41:54 am
Quote from: Dsarker on September 17, 2011, 10:35:53 am
And intellectual pain, e.g., "If only I'd done X, not Y. I'd be perfectly happy."

An interesting angle. You're thinking about the rules of your belief, I guess.
Let's say your current actions lend you in hell. Would you regret them? Even if what you were supposed to do were against your current morality?

Edit : just think of the most intolerant belief you know. Would you regret not following them if it landed you in hell.

No, because following relativity is inherently incorrect. It's like saying up is down. If not following it landed me in hell, I'd be happy.
Logged
Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Phmcw

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damn max 500 characters
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 11:00:30 am »
Quote from: Dsarker on September 17, 2011, 10:47:58 am
No, because following relativity is inherently incorrect. It's like saying up is down. If not following it landed me in hell, I'd be happy.

Hehe, right, that's fucked up belief. Now for a serious answer?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 02:31:12 pm by Phmcw »
Logged
Quote from: toady

In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2011, 02:36:28 pm »
This is meant to be a dilemna based on what some people think, not a description of what all Christians are meant to believe, as far as I can tell.  So I'll answer it as a dilemna.

Personally... I feel that forgetting my loved ones and my past concerns would erase my identity - after all, what am I if not a product of the people who've taught me and the problems I've faced?  I wouldn't be the same being anymore if I accepted the bliss route, so for me it's more a choice of effective death vs pain.  I'd probably still chose death over eternal torture though, and treat it as the end of my existance.
Logged

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2011, 02:45:46 pm »
Quote from: Dsarker on September 17, 2011, 10:07:51 am
Thirdly, we don't know what hell is. It could be a pit of hellfire, it could be a freezing mountain. It could simply be separation from God. We don't know. Same with purgatory, and heaven isn't exactly known either.
You know, hell isn't actually mentioned at any point in the Bible. The modern interpretation of a hell was mostly started by Dante Alighieri, who pulled it out of some older unrelated beliefs. Purgatory isn't ever mentioned either, the Roman Catholic Church just sort of decreed it's existence.


Anyway, on the OP, I'm not sure it's a very answerable question. If you choose the traditional view of heaven, you cease to be "you" anymore, just a brainwashed shell that looks a lot like you. If I picked that, I wouldn't be MSH anymore, and so its not an option. If you choose the traditional view of hell, the pain of it would drive you insane and you'd also cease to be yourself anymore, just a mentally burnt-out husk that looks a lot like you. If I picked that, I still wouldn't be MSH anymore, and so it also isn't an option. So I say that there is no choice here. Both outcomes end the same way.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 02:47:25 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Lectorog

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2011, 02:55:38 pm »
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on September 17, 2011, 02:45:46 pm
Anyway, on the OP, I'm not sure it's a very answerable question. If you choose the traditional view of heaven, you cease to be "you" anymore, just a brainwashed shell that looks a lot like you. If I picked that, I wouldn't be MSH anymore, and so its not an option. If you choose the traditional view of hell, the pain of it would drive you insane and you'd also cease to be yourself anymore, just a mentally burnt-out husk that looks a lot like you. If I picked that, I still wouldn't be MSH anymore, and so it also isn't an option. So I say that there is no choice here. Both outcomes end the same way.
If you're taking Dante's view of Hell, the people there are pretty much the same as they used to be. The only thing changed is that they're learning their lesson and they're (generally) in immense amounts of pain. Their base personality doesn't change; they retain a full mental state.

I would happily embrace a blissful ignorance. If everything bad I ever knew was gone from my mind, that would be fine. I couldn't care about any loss of memory, because I would know nothing about it.

To use a simple analogy, I love the internet. It is a great thing. What if it's actually a magical force kept in place by thousands of human sacrifices daily? As far as I know, it's not, and I can continue to enjoy it without regret. Such would be a selectively-minded heaven.

If you don't know about something bad, then - to you - it may as well not exist.
Logged

Azkul

  • Bay Watcher
  • Also,
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2011, 03:34:50 pm »
Quote from: Dsarker on September 17, 2011, 10:07:51 am
The only ones we know are those who are in heaven, and those are the saints.

How do you know they are in heaven?
Logged
Quote from: lawastooshort on October 03, 2011, 03:27:05 am
Whereas !!ALCHEMY!! has, since the times of Kings Arthur and Charlemagne, been about transforming oneself into a horse using feces.
Quote from: Rakonas on September 06, 2011, 03:58:24 pm
It turns out sleep is unnecessary because you can just get married and get infinite kisses

Dsarker

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ἱησους Χριστος Θεου Υἱος Σωτηρ
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2011, 03:54:32 pm »
Quote from: Azkul on September 17, 2011, 03:34:50 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on September 17, 2011, 10:07:51 am
The only ones we know are those who are in heaven, and those are the saints.

How do you know they are in heaven?

Through miracles that are performed through their intercession with God.
Logged
Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2011, 04:26:19 pm »
And these miracles are completely verified, right?
Logged

Dsarker

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ἱησους Χριστος Θεου Υἱος Σωτηρ
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2011, 04:26:52 pm »
Quote from: Leafsnail on September 17, 2011, 04:26:19 pm
And these miracles are completely verified, right?

Yes.
Logged
Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2011, 05:08:32 pm »
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Dsarker

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ἱησους Χριστος Θεου Υἱος Σωτηρ
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2011, 05:11:31 pm »
By authorities at the time, y'know, writing stuff down and passing it along. (Authorities unfortunately tending to be the majority of those who can read or write or both.) Some of them are still around, and I'll try and find one example which has been verified by science today.
Logged
Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Dsarker

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ἱησους Χριστος Θεου Υἱος Σωτηρ
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2011, 05:14:51 pm »
Miracle of Lanciano is one that is still present today and has been scientifically verified. It isn't a miracle that occurred after apostolic intercession (at least, not so far as we know), however.
Logged
Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Dsarker

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ἱησους Χριστος Θεου Υἱος Σωτηρ
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2011, 05:28:29 pm »
Sorry for the triple post, but here's a link to a study on it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4950729
Logged
Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2011, 05:30:25 pm »
That confirms that the blood and flesh in question are indeed real human blood and flesh. Doesn't really prove anything about a miracle taking place.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Dsarker

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ἱησους Χριστος Θεου Υἱος Σωτηρ
    • View Profile
Re: A little dilemma
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2011, 05:31:55 pm »
It is miracle enough that they not decayed over twelve centuries.
Logged
Quote from: NewsMuffin
Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
Quote
[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
« previous next »