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[Googolplexed]

I know what you are getting at

The thing is, I was around back when BS12s playstyle was very different.
Personally, I doubt we will get better RP, and the start will probably be a huge struggle.

When I started with BS12, about 3 players would join each day it felt like, with only decent numbers on weekends
It grew, and it is what it is now.

Honestly, if this server gets 7 people on the weekends, I'll be happy

Really, I find that the drama actually develops when the server is growing, not when it is starting.

[Rakonas]

I support this project, and I had no issues in the past with BS12 admins. It's really just issues in the present. The philosophy of how SS13 should be played is one that I hope will one day have textbooks written on it, considering how deep the simple issue is.
Anyway, I think that basing the new map heavily on the trorbes map is a great idea, personally I liked the old map style a lot. I remember that this map, or at least I believe it was this map, had cent. comm on the same z-level; will that be done? Also, what engine will be used?

[Googolplexed]

I'm pretty sure this map never had centcom on the same Z level
Anyway, the engine is the standard singulo for the moment
A) Its already in the codebase
B) The above

Coding in "Teh Awesome features" right now is pretty counterproductive to just getting a basic server running

[Lorak]

Sorry I missed you in our IRC Googol.  Just read the log and I wanted to point out to you that it was your continued treatment of the game as if it was a personal project rather than a game other people play and work on that made people start to not like you in the first place.

If you want your new server to just be another personal project, you need to make that rather clear to the people playing, and especially the people administrating and coding, if you even have anyone help with that.

Also, you shouldn't flip-flop as far as what you want the server to be like.  BS12 was supposedly started as a roleplaying server, and those of us who came to it expected it to be a roleplaying server.  Somewhere along the line you decided you didn't want that, and instead wanted something with a lot of chaos as well as making it easy for the traitor, which was detrimental to roleplay and didn't fit very well with the direction the other admins/coders (who were picked up from the people who joined BS12 expecting roleplay) wanted the server to go in.

Good luck with your server, and try to avoid that pesky history repeating itself thing.

[Googolplexed]

I agree to the first point, I continued to do that long after I should have stopped

However, as to the second point:
BS12 always was an RP server, right from when I started, the difference was the degree of RP and the limitations enforced upon the players. Chaos was a norm in an RP environment
It slowly slide further and further to the RPing side until eventually the lack of chaos caused the game to basically become boring.

The thing is, RP and Chaos aren't exactly polar opposite, you can have good RP even when rounds last 40 minutes and tons of stuff blows up.
Largely, my problem with BS12 became that it lost the balance that made it fun to me in the first place. I had pretty much seen the server grow from basically what it is I'm trying to get started now, to what BS12 is today.

The other thing, was that BS12 spawned at a time where we were RPers largely because... well the only other server was GS13 during its... run of terrible administration.

Chaos can easily be increased in an RP way, increasing the ability for traitors to do damage is probably the easiest way. Less steal objectives and more blow this guy to bits and then force people to call the shuttle by blowing up 1/3 of the station.

The goals I saw everyone leaning towards when I left BS12 were traitors being forced to only attack specific targets, and the ... removal of objectives that required the traitor to cause a lot of chaos

[612DwarfAvenue]

Yeah. I like that BS12 is more focused on good RP, but most of the time they're too strict and the rounds just aren't fun. If i wanted super-realistic RP, i'd get a job in real life, i play a game to have fun. If a game (or server in said game) isn't fun to play, then it's failed. It's entirely possible to have chaotic Traitor rounds that still have very good RP.

[CompactNinja]

Yeah. I like that BS12 is more focused on good RP, but most of the time they're too strict and the rounds just aren't fun. If i wanted super-realistic RP, i'd get a job in real life, i play a game to have fun. If a game (or server in said game) isn't fun to play, then it's failed.

Have fun finding a job in space.

Also, you fail to acknowledge that MANY of us find BS12 fun, hence us playing there. Not everyone adheres to YOUR standards of fun.

[612DwarfAvenue]

Yeah. I like that BS12 is more focused on good RP, but most of the time they're too strict and the rounds just aren't fun. If i wanted super-realistic RP, i'd get a job in real life, i play a game to have fun. If a game (or server in said game) isn't fun to play, then it's failed.

Have fun finding a job in space.

Also, you fail to acknowledge that MANY of us find BS12 fun, hence us playing there. Not everyone adheres to YOUR standards of fun.

Not everyone adheres to yours either, Compact. I was speaking from my own view, i realize there's people who find BS12 fun, but i've found myself sorta drifting away from it.

[Googolplexed]

Lets just stop that line of conversation right here...
BS12 wouldn't still exist if people didn't find it fun

and well, as for this server, I guess I'll have to wait and see

[Apple Master]

(removed)

[Myroc]

I find that there's a slight difference between saying things and actually meaning the things you say.

I don't have anything major against BS12, I'm just in this project because I think I can do slightly better. Previously I haven't had any major issues at all with the BS12 admins, even if they had a tendency to be slightly too serious at times. Your posts are really starting to make that image decline. I mean, your first post regarding this whole issue about Zaphod trying to get another server going was you insulting him for thinking that BS12 is, after trying to get into it, not his cup of tea because of its admins. You're not exactly proving yourself different.

[612DwarfAvenue]

I agree, you're coming across as an asshole Apple.

[Apple Master]

Fine.

Zaphod, whilst I disagree with your motives and find you hilarious, I wish you all the best in establishing a 4th "decent" branch of SS13. If you do manage to get past the initial complete lack of co-ordination and common goals, I'm sure the server'll be fine. Or maybe it'll just end up languishing in the HUB and have a dedicated playerbase of like 7 people, but even that would probably be fine for what you seem to desire.

That said, I think a lot of people under-estimate just how hard it is to maintain a decent RP without being strict. It's impossibly to put actual rules when the entire point of BS12 is freeform RP, and our admins much prefer (at least, I do, myself) to not be part of a hivemind. We're all admins, and we all administrate for various reasons, but we don't all adher to the exact same rules. That's a thing that players should realise, rather than being banned by say, Me, and then complaining that the whole of BS12 is bad. Although obviously us admins share mostly the same opinion (RP > Not RP, etc), there is always a difference between the admin's style.

[CompactNinja]

Pretty much what Apples said about adminning.
When we come across as arseholes, chances are there's a reason for it. If we take Zaphod for example, he is a prime example of a poor player, at least on BS12. He caused problems, didn't adhere to our rules, and often complained when reprimanded for such behaviour; which resulted in us getting "crabby" at him, which likely has led to him considering me to be a...

nob-end

Now, sure, I did treat him rudely, but it was a rudeness born of being tired of his behaviour.
We have strict rules, and we expect people to follow them, but this is because we want to maintain the high level of RP that has come to be the standard for BS12. We're only gonna come across as "mean" when you aren't doing what is expected of players, and really, if that's the case, then that's probably a sign that BS12 isn't for you.
I guess that's where /tg/ and possibly, assuming you guys get it running, Red Dwarf, comes in.

[ThtblovesDF]

I already posted in the other Thread, but again I present you with a offer of my time as Admin.

Seeing how ManicTime tells me I have 800 hours logged in Byond, I might as well spend some of it usefully.