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Add Orc tribes (Smaller than a waaaagh!) - i'm starting to work on this one

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Add chaos dwarves - modder needed

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Add Ogre Tribes - done

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: March 31, 2012, 09:54:22 am

[Black_Legion]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[spoiler]

Awesome, I'll start doing some work on them. I'll split them into four different creatures, one for each of the major clans - Skyre Skaven will have access to more powerful weaponry (stuff built from warpstone - speaking of which, has anyone made any warpstone yet?), Pestilens Skaven will be covered in syndromes (I'm imagining various castes, each of which have syndrome attacks in varying levels of lethality), Moulder Skaven will have access to beasts (as castes for now, once .26 comes out they'll start using warpstones to turn citizens into monsters), and Eshin Skaven (I honestly don't know what to do with these guys, besides high natural skills in things like ambushing and observing; we can't do much with poisons right now... although I suppose 'traps' consisting of poison dumped on the ground might be workable...)
So yeah, I'll get a base creature and entity out first. Give me a few hours for that.

That sounds great! I could easily see plague monks just constantly secreting some kind of vile syndrome-carrying ichor. You could also make some kind of syndrome-bearing metal or rock to make plague censers out of. I don't think warpstone has been done yet. Maybe make it appear in reasonably small clusters in soil layers, to simulate the meteoric fragments falling down from Morislieb and embedding themselves in the ground? I guess with that explanation you could find them in deeper layers too, if the soil just built up over an old impact...


Also very excited for some good ol' O n' G. Black iron sounds cool. Mass deforestation is also extremely orky. 

Either way, I'm pumped for Skaven and Orks and it sounds like you guys are gonna do an excellent job! Good luck!

Also! Just put up another big bugfix for Warriors of Chaos. Overhauled all my Great Altar reactions, edited some inorganic raws and syndromes, fixed a few embarrassing typos, and have rebound the hotkey for the Dark Shrine, so it can now be used. Also provided a nifty  readme file so you can all figure out how to make the uber-deadly god-weaponry and understand how everything works.

Get Warriors of Chaos v0.43b here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3612


Also, krantz, could you please update the main page with this? There have been a lot of really important bugfixes since you've last updated. Thanks!

Also, anybody else find it kickass how there is so much interest in this thread? It was bumped and there was like 8 posts inside three hours or so xD

**Spoilered due to long quote **

I actually have most of the stuff done for the orcs, barring the goblins, due to a side project I've been working on for a while so as soon as I am done with the chaos dwarfs I could finish that.

As far as some of the unique aspects of the Orc technology I could add the "Slag Pit" which essentially represents the Orc's crudeness as they can't really refine metals only melt and shape them. Essentially you start off with a slag pit that takes any metal, some charcoal, and possibly some rocks and cook it long enough till it melts. That gives you a bar of slag, something approaching copper/ iron in effectiveness. From there you can make a crude slag pipe and hook up a leather bag and then you can make a bellows which allows for the production of "pure" metals such as iron, copper, bronze ect. The Black Iron reaction could fit in there as well.

[/quote]

I'm finding some weird breeding issues with bull centaurs for the chaos dwarves so i may drop them for some hobgoblins which would be very easy to implement. The Hell canon and Lamasu are mostly done and the regular CDs are completely finished (sanse curly beards as I can't find a way to force them... ) I just need to figure out how I'm going to implement the Lamasu's magical capability and the Hell cannon's projectile attack...

Did you define bodies outside and inside castes? That can cause some crazy stuff.

For the siege weapons, you could use projectile attacks like that of the vanilla magma crab.

The hell cannon should use the same mechanics of the magma crab, I'm just trying to get the projectile to "explode" upon contact spreading a syndrome that stuns, nauseates, and enhances bleeding. The fluff effects of a proper HC blast are hard to emulate in the current version of Dwarf Fortress.

The bull centaurs have a body defined in an outside file so I don't know if that's the culprit but having a bull centaur baby with 2 torsos and other nonsense is strange.   

[Synner]

You guys know that the crabs shoot like nuts, right? unless you're aiming for the machinegun feel i think another method is nescesary, apologies if this is irrelevant, i have no idea of modding at all.

[Black_Legion]

You guys know that the crabs shoot like nuts, right? unless you're aiming for the machinegun feel i think another method is nescesary, apologies if this is irrelevant, i have no idea of modding at all.

They actually shoot boulders of obsidian that is covered in frozen ichor... but I digress. The machine-gun firing is an issue though so I may have to settle for using the breath weapon templates. That would also help with the delivery of syndromes... hrmmm

[Teneb]

As far as some of the unique aspects of the Orc technology I could add the "Slag Pit" which essentially represents the Orc's crudeness as they can't really refine metals only melt and shape them. Essentially you start off with a slag pit that takes any metal, some charcoal, and possibly some rocks and cook it long enough till it melts. That gives you a bar of slag, something approaching copper/ iron in effectiveness. From there you can make a crude slag pipe and hook up a leather bag and then you can make a bellows which allows for the production of "pure" metals such as iron, copper, bronze ect. The Black Iron reaction could fit in there as well.

If you ever make that slag pit, we could use it with all greenskins, night goblins included.

Also, having body definiton inside and outside a caste WILL make children... messy. You'll have to place bodies within each caste.


EDIT: we must also make greenskin "children" mature immediately after birth, lest they arrive as migrants.

Regarding greenskin reproduction, we'll have to make male and female castes that never appear ([POP_RATIO:0]) so they survive worldgen.

Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:MALE]
[CASTE_NAME:male:males:male]
[MALE]
[POP_RATIO:0]

[CASTE:FEMALE]
[CASTE_NAME:female:females:female]
[FEMALE]
[POP_RATIO:0]

I'm currently wonder if gas squigs will explode upon death, and what should their breath attack/explosion syndrome will do. Nausea, maybe?

[Black_Legion]

As far as some of the unique aspects of the Orc technology I could add the "Slag Pit" which essentially represents the Orc's crudeness as they can't really refine metals only melt and shape them. Essentially you start off with a slag pit that takes any metal, some charcoal, and possibly some rocks and cook it long enough till it melts. That gives you a bar of slag, something approaching copper/ iron in effectiveness. From there you can make a crude slag pipe and hook up a leather bag and then you can make a bellows which allows for the production of "pure" metals such as iron, copper, bronze ect. The Black Iron reaction could fit in there as well.

If you ever make that slag pit, we could use it with all greenskins, night goblins included.

Also, having body definiton inside and outside a caste WILL make children... messy. You'll have to place bodies within each caste.


EDIT: we must also make greenskin "children" mature immediately after birth, lest they arrive as migrants.

Regarding greenskin reproduction, we'll have to make male and female castes that never appear ([POP_RATIO:0]) so they survive worldgen.

Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:MALE]
[CASTE_NAME:male:males:male]
[MALE]
[POP_RATIO:0]

[CASTE:FEMALE]
[CASTE_NAME:female:females:female]
[FEMALE]
[POP_RATIO:0]

I'm currently wonder if gas squigs will explode upon death, and what should their breath attack/explosion syndrome will do. Nausea, maybe?

The slag pit is mostly made, I'm just working on the graphics for it and refining some the reactions. I think I'll the leave out the Lamasu till interactions come in and focus on implementing chaos armor and the Hell cannon as well as finishing up the entity raws and clearing up that breeding issue with the centaurs.

I was thinking greenskin "children" should more or less be the snotlings and mature rapidly ie. 1-2 years? The only problem with having not male or female orcs (since OnGs reproduce by spores anyway... which is already implemented in DF strangely enough) would be some possible strangeness in Player forts running the OnGs. Though the possible strangeness of seeing the combat report that an orc slashes at the beastman with her choppa could be quite jarring... Is there any way to modify the gender pronouns to just be its since greenskins are neuter? Then again it would be nice to have  a supply of homegrown orcs. Too bad we don't have creature creation reactions. A spawning pool or fungal pit that creates snotlings would work well...

[mrtspence]

Well, my first beastman embark ended in total disaster.

I embarked in an area replete with ogres and, due to not being able to embark with an axe, was unable to fortify in time before my beastmen and their herd of chickens and turkeys were feasted upon by slavering ogres. My drafted militia of 7 fought valiantly, inflicting bruises with their horns, but were painfully murdered one-by-one by a hulking monster.

Oh well, can't win em all.


Also, the Beastmen entity raws are currently using a lot of copied and pasted stuff from an old version of my warriors of chaos mod, which is fine, except that the reactions aren't up to date (read likely won't work) and everything is indented and as such will likely not work xD.

Also, the Beastmen are allowed to make a lot of Chaos Warrior weapons that are way too big for them (anything that has "chaos" in it that sounds like it would take two hands to wield is gonna be too big for man-sized Beastmen to use). So maybe remove those from the entity file?


A caste description would also be really helpful, as I had no idea what my beastmen were (as in gors, ungors, etc.)

So far so good though! Keep up the excellent work, gentlemen, and we will have ourselves a fleshed out and fully-realized mod in no time!
   

[Teneb]

Well, my first beastman embark ended in total disaster.

I embarked in an area replete with ogres and, due to not being able to embark with an axe, was unable to fortify in time before my beastmen and their herd of chickens and turkeys were feasted upon by slavering ogres. My drafted militia of 7 fought valiantly, inflicting bruises with their horns, but were painfully murdered one-by-one by a hulking monster.

Oh well, can't win em all.


Also, the Beastmen entity raws are currently using a lot of copied and pasted stuff from an old version of my warriors of chaos mod, which is fine, except that the reactions aren't up to date (read likely won't work) and everything is indented and as such will likely not work xD.

Also, the Beastmen are allowed to make a lot of Chaos Warrior weapons that are way too big for them (anything that has "chaos" in it that sounds like it would take two hands to wield is gonna be too big for man-sized Beastmen to use). So maybe remove those from the entity file?


A caste description would also be really helpful, as I had no idea what my beastmen were (as in gors, ungors, etc.)

So far so good though! Keep up the excellent work, gentlemen, and we will have ourselves a fleshed out and fully-realized mod in no time!
 

I've already made a new version that fixes the caste descriptions and such. I belived, however, that they would be able to wield those weapons. Not a problem, however. I do remember them having axes last time I tested, however. The entity file was mostly the dwarf entity file with a few modifications. What I want to know is why beastmen are hostile to chaos warriors.

[mrtspence]

The hostility twixt chaos warriors and beastmen likely has to do with one or two little differences on the ethics area of the entity file. To fix that, you could just copy what I have or we could agree on some normalizations. Not being able to embark with axes could have been due to the indented chunk of the entity file or it could have just been random chance.

It would be cool if we could get the chaos forces allied correctly. Could lead to some cool stuff in legends mode and some cooler stuff once the army arc comes around!

[Teneb]

I think what causes them to be hostile is that beastmen eat corpses of the dead and consider just about everything in the ethics "acceptable". Some testing may be required.



EDIT: on the topic of greenskins, we could just leave them genderless and child-less and have them rely on migrants in fort mode. Removing the [CHILD:X] an [BABY:Y] tags and adding [NO_GENDER] should do the trick

[Crazy Cow]

Alright, I don't have much more than the skeleton done, but now I can start on each clan of Skaven, building them off this base here. Each of them is going to be a separate creature and entity, so we'll end up with four different Skaven civilizations.
Here's the base raws. The creature is only a slightly modified ratman, but the civilization is pretty much built from scratch.

Spoiler: creature_skaven (click to show/hide)

creature_skaven

[OBJECT:CREATURE]

[CREATURE:SKAVEN_CC]
[DESCRIPTION:An evil humanoid with the features of a rat. Cunning and cruel, Skaven worship the Horned Rat and spread death and destruction in his name.]
[NAME:skaven:skaven:skaven]
[CREATURE_TILE:'k'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:cunning plans]
[CASTE:SLAVE_M]
   [MALE]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:4FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH:RODENT_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:1000]
   [BODY_SIZE:1:168:20000]
   [BODY_SIZE:4:0:80000]
[CASTE:SLAVE_F]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:4FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH:RODENT_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
   [FEMALE]
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:1000]
   [BODY_SIZE:1:168:20000]
   [BODY_SIZE:4:0:80000]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:HAIR:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL:FRONT]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:TOE:NAIL:FRONT]
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
 [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
  [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[HAS_NERVES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
[MAXAGE:60:80]
[ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
   [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
   [ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
   [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
   [ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
   [ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
   [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:GRASP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
   [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
   [ATTACK_VERB:scratch:scratches]
   [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
   [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:BITE:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH]
   [ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
   [ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
   [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
   [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
   [ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
[BABY:1]
[CHILD:4]
[EQUIPS]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
   [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:HAIR]
      [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:ASH_GREY:1:BLACK:1:BROWN:1:CHARCOAL:1:CHOCOLATE:1:CREAM:1:DARK_BROWN:1:GRAY:1:PINK:1:SILVER:1:TAN:1:WHITE:1]
         [TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
   [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
      [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:RED:1]
         [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

Spoiler: entity_skaven (click to show/hide)

entity_skaven

[OBJECT:ENTITY]

[ENTITY:SKAVEN]
   [CIV_CONTROLLABLE]
   [CREATURE:SKAVEN_CC]
   [TRANSLATION:GOBLIN]
   [DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT_TRAINING]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR_TRAINING]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_MAIL_SHIRT:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_VEST:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
   [GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_PANTS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
   [SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_GIANTAXEBLADE]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_ENORMOUSCORKSCREW]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_SPIKEDBALL]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_HAMMER]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_AXE]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
   [TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_NEST_BOX]
   [TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG]
   [TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_LARGE_POT]
   [TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_HIVE]
   [SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]
   [CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
   [CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
   [CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
   [CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:ARTIFICE]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:EARTH]
   [METAL_PREF]
   [STONE_PREF]
   [INDOOR_WOOD]
   [INDOOR_FARMING]
   [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]
   [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET]
   [USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS]
   [EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
   [ART_IMAGE_ELEMENT_MODIFIER:PLANT:64]
   [ART_IMAGE_ELEMENT_MODIFIER:TREE:64]
   [ITEM_IMPROVEMENT_MODIFIER:RINGS_HANGING:64]
   [ITEM_IMPROVEMENT_MODIFIER:BANDS:384]
   [ITEM_IMPROVEMENT_MODIFIER:SPIKES:384]
   [ADVENTURE_TIER:4]
   [FRIENDLY_COLOR:1:0:1]
   [DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:CAVE]
   [LIKES_SITE:CAVE]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CITY]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:TREE_CITY]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED]
   [START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:5]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:5]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
   [DIPLOMAT_BODYGUARDS]
   [MERCHANT_BODYGUARDS]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
   [AMBUSHER]
   [BABYSNATCHER]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
   [MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
   [MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
   [MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
   [WANDERER]
   [BEAST_HUNTER]
   [SCOUT]
   [ABUSE_BODIES]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ENGRAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAPONSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BLACKSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_CUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_SETTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GLASSMAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:STRAND_EXTRACTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CHEESE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MILKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SHEARER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SPINNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:THRESHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MILLER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:DYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PLANTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SOAP_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:POTASH_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LYE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CLERK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ADMINISTRATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:DIAGNOSER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_SETTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SUTURER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SURGEON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GLAZER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:POTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PRESSER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BEEKEEPER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WAX_WORKER]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:SOAP_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:SCREW_PRESS]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:TAN_A_HIDE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:RENDER_FAT]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_SOAP_FROM_TALLOW]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_SOAP_FROM_OIL]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_PEARLASH]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_PLASTER_POWDER]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MILL_SEEDS_NUTS_TO_PASTE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_JUG]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_BRICKS]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_STATUE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_LARGE_CLAY_POT]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_CRAFTS]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_JUG]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_STATUE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_LARGE_POT]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:GLAZE_CRAFT]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:PRESS_OIL]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_CLAY_HIVE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:PRESS_HONEYCOMB]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_WAX_CRAFTS]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_MEAD]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:BITUMINOUS_COAL_TO_COKE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:LIGNITE_TO_COKE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:BRONZE_MAKING2]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:PIG_IRON_MAKING]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:STEEL_MAKING]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:ADAMANTINE_WAFERS]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:TUNNEL]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:BRIDGE]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:ROAD]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TREASON:UNTHINKABLE]
   [ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:LYING:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:VANDALISM:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TRESPASSING:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:THEFT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [WILL_ACCEPT_TRIBUTE]
   [BANDITRY:30]
   [POSITION:LEADER]
      [NAME:clan leader:clan leaders]
      [BRAG_ON_KILL]
      [CHAT_WORTHY]
      [DEMAND_MAX:0]
      [DO_NOT_CULL]
      [ELECTED]
      [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
      [KILL_QUEST]
      [MANDATE_MAX:0]
      [PRECEDENCE:1]
      [QUEST_GIVER]
      [REQUIRES_POPULATION:80]
   [POSITION:LEADER_LOCAL]
      [NAME:fortress leader:fortress leaders]
      [APPOINTED_BY:LEADER]
      [BRAG_ON_KILL]
      [CHAT_WORTHY]
      [DEMAND_MAX:0]
      [DO_NOT_CULL]
      [ELECTED]
      [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
      [KILL_QUEST]
      [MANDATE_MAX:0]
      [PRECEDENCE:100]
      [QUEST_GIVER]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
      [SITE]
   [POSITION:TRADER]
      [NAME:trader:traders]
      [APPOINTED_BY:LEADER_LOCAL]
      [BRAG_ON_KILL]
      [CHAT_WORTHY]
      [DEMAND_MAX:0]
      [DO_NOT_CULL]
      [ELECTED]
      [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
      [KILL_QUEST]
      [MANDATE_MAX:0]
      [PRECEDENCE:200]
      [QUEST_GIVER]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_INTRODUCTIONS]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_TOPIC_AGREEMENTS]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
      [SITE]
   [POSITION:DOCTOR]
      [NAME:doctor:doctors]
      [APPOINTED_BY:LEADER_LOCAL]
      [BRAG_ON_KILL]
      [CHAT_WORTHY]
      [DEMAND_MAX:0]
      [DO_NOT_CULL]
      [ELECTED]
      [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
      [KILL_QUEST]
      [MANDATE_MAX:0]
      [PRECEDENCE:200]
      [QUEST_GIVER]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:HEALTH_MANAGEMENT]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
      [SITE]
   [POSITION:MANAGER]
      [NAME:record keeper:record keepers]
      [APPOINTED_BY:LEADER_LOCAL]
      [BRAG_ON_KILL]
      [CHAT_WORTHY]
      [DEMAND_MAX:0]
      [DO_NOT_CULL]
      [ELECTED]
      [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
      [KILL_QUEST]
      [MANDATE_MAX:0]
      [PRECEDENCE:200]
      [QUEST_GIVER]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:ACCOUNTING]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MANAGE_PRODUCTION]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MEET_WORKERS]
      [SITE]

Here's the plan for each clan, as of right now:

Spoiler: Clan Skyre (click to show/hide)

Warlock Engineer - rare caste, has skills with alchemy and mechanics naturally
Clanrat - uncommon caste, tougher than slaves
Ranged weapons made using warpstones (ratling gun? warp grinder?)

Spoiler: Clan Pestilens (click to show/hide)

Plague Priest - rare caste, gives off secretions that (short-term) cause dizziness and blood coughing, and (long-term) destroy the brain.
Plague Monk - uncommon caste, attacks carry various syndromes

Spoiler: Clan Moulder (click to show/hide)

Giant Rat and Rat Ogre as castes (future versions have you turn other creatures into monsters)
Powerful weapons for rat ogre only
I need some kind of rare caste; maybe I'll lump gray seers in with Moulder or something.

Spoiler: Clan Eshin (click to show/hide)

Assassin - rare caste, has additional grasps with mouth and tail and natural stealth skills, much better fighter (read: bigger :p)
Gutter Runner - uncommon caste, has additional grasps with mouth and tail and natural stealth skills
Better daggers/swords

[Black_Legion]

I think what causes them to be hostile is that beastmen eat corpses of the dead and consider just about everything in the ethics "acceptable". Some testing may be required.



EDIT: on the topic of greenskins, we could just leave them genderless and child-less and have them rely on migrants in fort mode. Removing the [CHILD:X] an [BABY:Y] tags and adding [NO_GENDER] should do the trick

Will having the greenskins genderless and unable to make children allow them to survive worldgen and receive migrants? I though the Male/Female tags and children were mandatory for survival. If it isn't then that would solve most of fluff issues with them. If we need to I'm okay with having snotlings as their children which can grow into either orcs or goblins. Of course with night goblins that wouldn't be a problem. Is this possible?

[Teneb]

I think what causes them to be hostile is that beastmen eat corpses of the dead and consider just about everything in the ethics "acceptable". Some testing may be required.



EDIT: on the topic of greenskins, we could just leave them genderless and child-less and have them rely on migrants in fort mode. Removing the [CHILD:X] an [BABY:Y] tags and adding [NO_GENDER] should do the trick

Will having the greenskins genderless and unable to make children allow them to survive worldgen and receive migrants? I though the Male/Female tags and children were mandatory for survival. If it isn't then that would solve most of fluff issues with them. If we need to I'm okay with having snotlings as their children which can grow into either orcs or goblins. Of course with night goblins that wouldn't be a problem. Is this possible?

Children are not mandatory, according to the wiki. Regarding male and female tokens, you can simply make two castes with [POP_RATIO:0] and [MALE]/[FEMALE] and they'll survive. Make another one (or more) with [POP_RATIO:100] (unsure if it's necessary or not) and [NO_GENDER] for the playable ones. I'd rather have snotlings as pets than anything else. Also, will greenskins be considered [EVIL] or just [SAVAGE]?

[mrtspence]

Looking good, Crazy Cow. I like your plans greatly.

I do have one big objection though, which is making skaven bigger than humans. As-is, skaven slaves are about 10 kilos bigger than a grown man, on average. I've always read that most skaven (especially slaves) are smaller than people. The exceptions to this, to my knowledge) are the Stormvermin and the bigger, meaner leaders (who are likely Stormvermin).

Maybe make slaves around 55000, clanrats at 65000 and stormvermin at 80000? Also, to make assassins better fighters without making them bigger (and unfluffy), you can just give them a higher base skill at combat skills, or better skill learning rates for the same.

To make them faster and more agile, you could put in the appropriate token and give them a more favourable range, so that that too lines up with the fluff.

Also, pop trigger 1 to start sieges would result in steel-wielding skaven laying waste to your colony of some 20-odd dwarves/whatevers before you could ever hope to muster an effective army, so maybe move that to 3 or 4? Just that they use good weapons (read steel) makes them really deadly as a baseline, but showing up early would result in many forts being killed within the first few months, which is likely not great.

Either way, just suggestions, but hopefully valid ones!



As to the Orcs, I personally don't mind female orks, as I know that it is just a temporary hurdle in accurately simulating our greenskins. At the same time, I could see migrants-only as a valid and fluffy way to swell their ranks with only one big intrinsic flaw existing, which is that more fighting = less migrants in DF, but more fighting should equal more migrants (as orks love to go where the best scraps are). So I could foresee there being an anemic ork horde if you are behaving in an orky fashion (as all the death from the fighting would stop the influx of migrants and they can't breed).

[Karakzon]

cant you make it so that say, snotlings are the child , goblins are the breeding age, then they mature into orcs?

or have it so that snotlings are the breeders and child in one, that then turn into goblins or orcs later on?

Unless of course you just gave lay eggs and call their egg a fungal growth sack, when snotlings, then have them change to male when they turn goblin and stay male when their orc.

Depends if you can do stage growths into different creature templates or not. may have to wait for the next release for it.

[Crazy Cow]

Looking good, Crazy Cow. I like your plans greatly.
---
Either way, just suggestions, but hopefully valid ones!

That's the reason I'm posting my WIPs here, so that people can make suggestions like this. Most of the points you make are, indeed, valid, except for the assassins. If they start with higher skills, then they might be better at first, but it would be trivial to simply train slaves up to similar levels, removing the edge that assassins have. If they're larger, then they are better compared to the other Skaven without the risk of loosing their edge.