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[Mindmaker]

By the way, you don't withdraw FOS. That only works with votes.

[Orangebottle]

Probably Jim Groovester, as the ICs tend to get offed fairly early (from what I've seen).

Interesting.
Why did you pick Jim over Toaster?

[Powder Miner]

Jim always dies. He's even made a joke of it, during Third Party Mafa, saying that Martyr would be a good role for him.

Well, asking moar questions.
*rolls die*
Mindmaker Got you again. As mafioso, would you rather town had a doctor, or a cop? As townie with a cop and a doctor on your team, rather roleblocker or godfather

[Orangebottle]

Jim always dies. He's even made a joke of it, during Third Party Mafa, saying that Martyr would be a good role for him.

Would you be suspicious of Jim if he made it to MYLO?

[Powder Miner]

Yes, if any IC makes it to MyLo or LyLo, I would be suspicious of them, much more so in LYLo, as the ICs make attractive targets, (I haven't seen a game where a town IC has survived except for maybe the one with the court and assassins ad such (forgot the number) in which we beat the scum fairly quickly.

[Jim Groovester]

Yes, if any IC makes it to MyLo or LyLo, I would be suspicious of them, much more so in LYLo, as the ICs make attractive targets, (I haven't seen a game where a town IC has survived except for maybe the one with the court and assassins ad such (forgot the number) in which we beat the scum fairly quickly.

My continued livelihood at any stage in the game is neither a reason to nor a reason not to suspect me.

There was a Beginner's Mafia where both ICs made it to the end of the game and both were town, for example.

[Powder Miner]

...Oh.
Well I guess I wouldn't then... and I guess NKs aren't anything good to bas suspicions off of anyway...

[Toaster]

Powder:

*rolls a die*
OK, Toaster, which alignment would you want to be if a new one was inserted into the game, or Mafia or town got a new player?
Like would you want to be Town, Jester....

I've never been Jester.  I've always wanted to try to get lynched instead of simply not being lynched.

Yes, if any IC makes it to MyLo or LyLo, I would be suspicious of them, much more so in LYLo, as the ICs make attractive targets, (I haven't seen a game where a town IC has survived except for maybe the one with the court and assassins ad such (forgot the number) in which we beat the scum fairly quickly.

This is a bad reason to suspect someone.

...Oh.
Well I guess I wouldn't then... and I guess NKs aren't anything good to bas suspicions off of anyway...

Right.

[See, from this, a scum player could intentionally leave a town IC alive at LYLO with you so that you would naturally suspect the town IC over the actual scum.  You need to judge the scumminess of an individual player, not their skill level.]

[Jafferey]

[...]
Jafferey, I've never seen you around here before, so answer me a question. Let's say you're a Roleblocker. How would you pick a target?
[...]

I would try to guess which players might be doctor and cop, and try to pick them to increase my chances of success. Obviously I wouldn't choose my scum partner. If not sure I could choose a random target, and maybe cycle through targets then see if my choice had any effect by looking at the discussion following.

[...]
Jaffery, do you reckon you would be a good scum player?

No, with my zero playing experience I have no confidence in my ability to play as scum or townie. I feel that I may be better at investigating than deceiving, but I couldn't say.

Also, some questions: what is FOS? MyLO? LyLO?

Orangebottle, if you were scum, who would you vote to lynch based on what has happened so far, and why?

[Jim Groovester]

How would you guess? What would you look for?

Also, some questions: what is FOS? MyLO? LyLO?

FoS = Finger of Suspicion. It's a declaration of suspicion that is either 1) not strong enough to vote on, or 2) in addition to a player's current vote. I've seen both usages.
MyLo = Mislynch or lose. The situation where if the town mislynches on the day that it is mylo they lose instantly. Typically the town will no-lynch at mylo.
LyLo = Lynch or lose. The situation where the town must lynch scum on that day or else they will lose.

[mipe9]

Unvote
ed boy, you are doing it wrong.

Would you care to elaborate just where I'm going wrong?

Your reaction to being voted is wrong.

Also spouts some nonsense.

You mean sterling pieces of advice.

I don't need to ask questions or probe anyone to gather information. I can find scum just by getting enough information.

If I could only tell you the number of people who thought they could be successful at the game just by sitting back and observing.

Nope, sorry, being a passive observer doesn't work. You have to get into the thick of things if you really want to get good reads on people. Activity and aggression are much more prized attributes for town than any ability for observation.

mipe9, could you explain to me what the point of your opening post was?

He said that everyone benefits from people being open and honest. There are cases where even a town player should lie.

Yeah, I know that, as I said on my earlier post, sitting back and watching has too many disadvantages to it.

Reaction fishing.

Powder Miner

I claim day Jack of All Trades. I inspected Powder Miner and got back that he is mafia watcher.

It's funny, because in an open setup like this, it is clearly stated in the OP that neither of those roles are in the setup.

In this setup, there are the possibility of extra roles. These roles are Cop and Doctor for Town, and Roleblocker and Godfather for Mafia.

You lying scum.
mipe9. This fakeclaim is so obvious it's painful.

I know, right? Wasn't this game "Beginner's bastard mafia XXVII?".

Orangebottle: Let's have a hypothetical situation that might not have anything to do with this game. You and X are scumbuddies. Y votes X, what do you do? Will you defend X, will you throw X under the bus or will you just ignore the whole situation? Or will you react differently?

[Jim Groovester]

Your reaction to being voted is wrong.

This is completely unproductive. You are going to get absolutely nowhere with this bullshit reaction testing.

Primarily because these sorts of questions don't tell you anything about the player you're testing.

Nothing. Nada. Zilch. How well they respond (or how well you say they respond) is a function of experience and familiarity with the style, not alignment.

He said that everyone benefits from people being open and honest. There are cases where even a town player should lie.

Those are very specific situations. In all other cases, it's vastly more beneficial to be open and honest than not.

Opening yourself up to be read is extremely important if you're town: it lets other people see that you're town, so that you and them can go focus on people who are not. It saves time and avoids mislynches.

Reaction fishing.

That's nice to say, but you better tell me what sorts of reactions you were looking for, and what sorts of reactions were going to tell you who was scum before I let you keep on going with this nonsense.

[mipe9]

Reaction fishing.

That's nice to say, but you better tell me what sorts of reactions you were looking for, and what sorts of reactions were going to tell you who was scum before I let you keep on going with this nonsense.

Well, first of all, both of the ICs seem townish based on their reaction. You could have easily gone just like Orangebottle and gone "WHELP, THOSE ROLES DONT EXIST HERE" and got me voted off quickly. Because you didn't do that, you are townish. But basically, there were 3 different reactions to that;
1. Just ignoring it. I mean, it was obviously a joke so I wouldn't be suprised if most of the people would just pass over it. BUT, it's really weird that Powder Miner, the person who I was voting, just completely ignored my vote. He just casually said to Orangebottle that it's a joke.
2. Just casually mentioning it, like you did. This was the reaction I was expecting from Powder Miner.
3. Attacking me for it. I have no idea how experienced the people in here are, but if they are complete newbies, I wouldn't be suprised if the mafiateam would be Orangebottle/Powder Miner. The fact that somebody took my post so seriously to vote me seems more like 'eep, I have to protect my scumbuddy' thing instead of 'eep, I have to kill scum'.

[Jim Groovester]

Those are sketchy conclusions at best to draw from a reaction test.

Well, first of all, both of the ICs seem townish based on their reaction. You could have easily gone just like Orangebottle and gone "WHELP, THOSE ROLES DONT EXIST HERE" and got me voted off quickly. Because you didn't do that, you are townish.

Hmm, I feel like I've already talked about this somewhere.

How well they respond (or how well you say they respond) is a function of experience and familiarity with the style, not alignment.

That the ICs responded the way they did is because they're experienced enough to recognize a reaction test and what the proper response to it is. So it's completely unremarkable that Toaster and I would do that, so I'm curious why you're concluding that we're townish.

Nice buddying, though. You think we're town? Aww, it warms me up inside.

1. Just ignoring it. I mean, it was obviously a joke so I wouldn't be suprised if most of the people would just pass over it. BUT, it's really weird that Powder Miner, the person who I was voting, just completely ignored my vote. He just casually said to Orangebottle that it's a joke.

So he just casually said to Orangebottle that it was a joke, and this is completely ignoring it?

Sounds a lot like he's casually mentioning it to me, which is what you said you were expecting him to do.

3. Attacking me for it. I have no idea how experienced the people in here are, but if they are complete newbies, I wouldn't be suprised if the mafiateam would be Orangebottle/Powder Miner. The fact that somebody took my post so seriously to vote me seems more like 'eep, I have to protect my scumbuddy' thing instead of 'eep, I have to kill scum'.

You're leaping headfirst to conclusions here. Orangebottle explained the reason for his vote:

If you stick a vote on a joke, I'm going to take it seriously.

This is a perfectly legitimate reason. Why do you assume he's rushing to his scumbuddy's defense (when his scumbuddy is apparently none too concerned about it) instead of him taking issue with you?

This is why I don't like reaction tests. You can draw whatever the fuck conclusion you want from them (usually terrible), and it gives you an excuse for scummy behavior.

For your reference, there's only one thing to look for when you do a reaction test:

1. Panic.

Anything else doesn't mean anything. If a player panics from an obvious reaction test, then you need to look at that player's experience. If he's inexperienced, he's probably doing it because he's a nubface and not because he's scum (though that could still be the case). If he's experienced, then it's an overreaction and a genuine scum tell.

[mipe9]

Those are sketchy conclusions at best to draw from a reaction test.

Well, first of all, both of the ICs seem townish based on their reaction. You could have easily gone just like Orangebottle and gone "WHELP, THOSE ROLES DONT EXIST HERE" and got me voted off quickly. Because you didn't do that, you are townish.

Hmm, I feel like I've already talked about this somewhere.

How well they respond (or how well you say they respond) is a function of experience and familiarity with the style, not alignment.

That the ICs responded the way they did is because they're experienced enough to recognize a reaction test and what the proper response to it is. So it's completely unremarkable that Toaster and I would do that, so I'm curious why you're concluding that we're townish.

Nice buddying, though. You think we're town? Aww, it warms me up inside.

The thing is, you are ICs in a newbie game. New people listen to you. If this would be a 'regular' game, you would be neutral, but just from the fact that you are IC and you aren't 'abusing' your position means that you are town. If you would say "Hey, X is scum because blablabla", it doesn't matter if blablabla is a scumtell or not, there would still be 1-2 people who would just go "Oh, he is the IC and he says that X is scum, therefore X must be scum". And in case someone would go "Hey, but blablabla isn't a scumtell!", you can just say that he is wrong.