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[Gahagan]

Hello DF forumgoers,

I've got a question about attribute training. In my current fort, I have set up a large Dwarven gym and made pump operation mandatory for all of my dwarves, with the idea that as they become Herculean in strength and stamina I'll pluck them out of the gym and into the military.

I've been keeping a basic spreadsheet to track values, since I don't believe Therapist does it, and I'm noticing that dwarves running the pumps gain endurance attribute points MUCH faster than strength or toughness.

Does anyone know if jobs reward different amounts of attribute points, or is it one flat rate of gain for all attributes associated with the labor?

[Girlinhat]

Unknown, but I assume you're using Runesmith to view their attribute numbers, yes?

[Gahagan]

No, I'm just using their status screen descriptions.

I would look at it more in-depth and set up some attribute gain by time charts, but I've got real life commitments I need to put ahead of DF commitments, sadly. Perhaps someone else might be able to.

[Gahagan]

Curiosity got the better of me. Here's one of my pumpers. I let him do his thing for 1 minute, with no interruptions, no thirst or hunger wants, just screwing a pump.

Dwarf: Kivish Cattenziril
Traits:

* Leadership 82
* Perseverance 79
* Rage 73
* Compromising 71
* Company 62
* Nervousness 39
* Honesty 35
* Lawfulness 35
* Helpfulness 31

Attributes at Start:
* Strength = 1089
* Agility = 921
* Toughness = 1788
* Endurance = 1419

Attributes at End:
* Strength = 1090 (+1)
* Agility = 921
* Toughness = 1789 (+1)
* Endurance = 1425 (+6)

Initially this would seem to indicate that pumping does indeed raise endurance fastest. I'm going to see if I can find a similar dwarf to Kivish but with lower endurance and see if the same thing happens.

[Girlinhat]

Well, how long is "1 minutes"?  It varies by FPS.

[Gahagan]

Provided that I use the same length of time for a second trial, on the same fort under the same conditions, the time frame is external to the fortress FPS.

Here we have Likot Asvabok. Likot is only a Legendary +1 Pump Operator, Kivish is +5 and almost 8000 XP ahead, but all the dwarves near 30k are pretty high up on the toughness spectrum. This should be ok, though, since all we're concerned with is the differences between individual attribute gains, not differences in attribute gains overall.

Dwarf: Likot Asvabok
Traits:

* Excellence 82
* Rage 75
* Artistic 71
* Confidence 67
* Activeness 65
* Honesty 63
* Urge 61
* Friendly 37

Attributes at Start:
* Strength = 1211
* Agility = 725
* Toughness = 1046
* Endurance = 894

Attributes at End:
* Strength = 1212 (+1)
* Agility = 725
* Toughness = 1047 (+1)
* Endurance = 902 (+8)

[wypie]

Does anything up agility?

[Girlinhat]

I know that a danger room gives max attributes in about a season, so combat definitely does.

[Gahagan]

I am about to look at Engraving as a means of training agility. Give me one moment.

It's of note that questions such as "What trains agility?" are already answered here. What I'm currently trying to figure out is in what ratios do professions reward attribute points, as there's the possibility that attribute gain isn't even.

[Girlinhat]

Pump operator is unique in that it's constant, but all other jobs are done in units.  With that in mind, it should be very easy to do 100 jobs of a specific type, and compare state growth to find the average growth.

[Gahagan]

Stone smoothing takes a long time starting from 0 xp. Experiment is in progress though.

[Girlinhat]

Adding [SPEED:0] shouldn't change the results, but it may be interesting to give females superspeed and leave males alone, and see if they skill up at different rates after the same number of jobs.

[Gahagan]

Looking at Engraving. Here's the method.

According to the Wiki, Engraving trains Agility, Creativity, Spatial Sense, and Kinesthetic Sense. Continuing with my own fort's theme of trying to create super-dwarves, I'm going to focus on agility. The following two dwarves have been selected for their differences in agility, to represent both ends of the attribute spectrum.

Ast Zasitkadol
Engraving Experience: 0

* Agility - 159
* Creativity - 1531
* S. Sense - 1345
* K. Sense - 1962

Kogan Zanegkekim
Engraving Experience: 0

* Agility - 1509
* Creativity - 1323
* S. Sense - 767
* K. Sense - 331

Each dwarf will be assigned to smooth the exterior wall of a 41x41 rock square, for a total of 168 smoothed tiles. While one dwarf works, the other will wait, with all labors turned off. No other dwarves have engraving on, and no other engraving designations or jobs exist in the fort. It may be worth noting, however, that Ast is carrying a child around.

Results:

Ast Zasitkadol
Engraving Experience: 1680

* Agility - 159 -> 177 (+ 18)
* Creativity - 1531 -> 1548 (+ 17)
* S. Sense - 1345 -> 1362 (+ 17)
* K. Sense - 1962 -> 1979 (+17)

All these gains average out to roughly +1 attribute per 10 tiles. There's no clear discrepancy in attribute gains as there is for pump operating, however.

In addition, gains likely increase quickly with skill and thus speed.

Provided I can find the time, I'm going to try and work on this some more and see if there's other professions for which large disparities exist.

Note: performing this method with Ast took 45 minutes. I skipped Kogan.

[Girlinhat]

It appears we'll need some stricter experiments to come up with real results.  Excuse me while I warm up my Science Hat.

[Gahagan]

Mining:

Etur S
0 experience
1773 strength
1112 toughness
1190 endurance
1046 willpower
2208 spatial sense
776 kinesthetic sense

Gave him a plot of soil to mine measuring 30x30, for 900 total squares.

The results follow:

Strength: +6
Toughness: +6
Endurance: +6
Willpower: +6
S. Sense: +6
K. Sense: +6
Experience: + 9000

So roughly 150 tiles for each attribute gain. Doesn't seem to be too efficient.

Will likely be the last one I do before bed. If anyone else would like to try different professions be our guests. Perhaps we could test out some of the ones from the page on cross-training, such as masonry and siege operation.