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[Flying Dice]

Also, is it just me or did that last bit in the article describing the fake facebook page he made sound really funny, in a sick way? And really, a legal decision against an Aspie for not entirely grasping the norms of social contact that quite a few reasonable adults of sound judgement with no mental disorders don't ever really get? Yeah, does the medical establishment in the U.K. still prescribe "Chain in attic for remainder of life" as a cure for insanity as well?

Not quite the same is it? He knew he was causing pain, and he willfully and continually did it. He did not 'misunderstand' this. This is not about 'Oh, he does not understand, let's jail him' it is more, 'Oh. He is breaking harassment laws, lets punish him.'

So why are all the other random trolls living in the U.K. not being arrested. Is it different because he went after dead kids on Facebook, instead of some other site or target that isn't nearly as good at being media-bait? Why are they not being arrested and jailed as well? There are people out there who say far more hurtful, disgusting things on a daily basis, and we don't see any of them being held to the same standard. Is it because there just happened to be a media circus around this particular case? Is it going back to the same bullshit idea of "making an example" by enacting an overly harsh punishment, despite the fact that this doesn't do a damn thing. Do you think a single person, after reading about this, said to themselves "Hey, I should stop being such an insensitive ass" and then followed through with it? Even if they did, do you think it was because of the punishment, rather than because they felt some sort of remorse?

Also, have you ever known someone with Aspergers? If not, you really aren't fit to judge. Hell, I probably shouldn't either, and I've seen the effects it has on an individual through a relative. It isn't a matter of them not caring that they're violating social norms, it is (at least in my experience) that  they genuinely don't understand the basics of interpersonal communication on the same level that others do. Of course, I can't speak from personal experience, only ancedotal evidence, but you damn well can't either.

[Criptfeind]

So why are all the other random trolls living in the U.K. not being arrested.

Because, as you seem to not understand there is a difference in degrees. For instance, If I say Flying Dice is a total idiot who refuses to actually read up the least on what he is talking about and only looks at the headlines before forming his shitty and ill informed 'opinion' that is tolling. If on the other hand I embark on a quest of harassment, following you about and finding what sites you frequent, basically stocking you, more so I if can find out any personal information (Shot in the total dark, is your name Steven?) and use that to follow you more. That is not trolling. That is harassment.

Also, have you ever known someone with Aspergers?

Yes.

If not, you really aren't fit to judge.

So I am?

you damn well can't either.

Why not? You don't know me, and those are some pretty bold statements to make online.

[Heliman]

Also, have you ever known someone with Aspergers? If not, you really aren't fit to judge. Hell, I probably shouldn't either, and I've seen the effects it has on an individual through a relative. It isn't a matter of them not caring that they're violating social norms, it is (at least in my experience) that  they genuinely don't understand the basics of interpersonal communication on the same level that others do. Of course, I can't speak from personal experience, only ancedotal evidence, but you damn well can't either.

The hell we can't! Case in point- Vector has Aspergers. In addition, a surprising amount of other people on this forum do too. Yes, they may have trouble understanding the basics of social norms, but they are not incapable of learning them.

[Gunner-Chan]

Oh god this topic just keeps getting worse.

Having aspergers does NOT make it impossible to commit a crime such has harassment, stalking someone or anything more social. Just because it's harder for you to learn how to behave doesn't mean the same standards don't apply to you. It's like saying someone with a temper problem shouldn't be punished for snapping and beating someone else up. They couldn't control themselves as well as another person might. But they still broke the law.

[mcclay]

Guys can we pleas stop, most of the arguments in this thread have turned into huge Flamewars, risking Toady's wrath. The thing that this guy did as wrong, Auspie or not. But his puinshment was extrmely harsh. Free speech and playing to the Media Watchdogs and Soccer Moms are edvient in this case to extreme amounts, making it hard to take a lot of stuff about how this an perfect puinshment sersiouly. However I would like people not to flame this post because Every time I hold up my device to write I lose internet.

[Criptfeind]

I don't know if it is a flame war really? Sure, I am offended by the positions of the others, but it is not like. Well it is not like we are trolling each other.

Also: Is the punishment too harsh? Interesting comment. I guess I would say maybe. Although I am not sure what you mean about 'playing' to certain groups.

[Flying Dice]

Also, have you ever known someone with Aspergers? If not, you really aren't fit to judge. Hell, I probably shouldn't either, and I've seen the effects it has on an individual through a relative. It isn't a matter of them not caring that they're violating social norms, it is (at least in my experience) that  they genuinely don't understand the basics of interpersonal communication on the same level that others do. Of course, I can't speak from personal experience, only ancedotal evidence, but you damn well can't either.

The hell we can't! Case in point- Vector has Aspergers. In addition, a surprising amount of other people on this forum do too. Yes, they may not understand the basics of social norms, but they are not incapable of learning them.

Like I said, that was personal experience with one individual I knew who had pretty severe social issues; there are plenty of people who are for all intents and purposes "normal". The point is, we don't know if this person knew what he was doing. Until we do, we can't really judge whether he was guilty of intent.

So why are all the other random trolls living in the U.K. not being arrested.

Because, as you seem to not understand there is a difference in degrees. For instance, If I say Flying Dice is a total idiot who refuses to actually read up the least on what he is talking about and only looks at the headlines before forming his shitty and ill informed 'opinion' that is tolling. If on the other hand I embark on a quest of harassment, following you about and finding what sites you frequent, basically stocking you, more so I if can find out any personal information (Shot in the total dark, is your name Steven?) and use that to follow you more. That is not trolling. That is harassment.

Also, have you ever known someone with Aspergers?

Yes.

If not, you really aren't fit to judge.

So I am?

you damn well can't either.

Why not? You don't know me, and those are some pretty bold statements to make online.

1: I clearly stated that that was if you had absolutely no personal knowledge, along with the acknowledgement that even with ancedotal evidence none of us are (I assume) researchers in the field, so all of our opinions are relatively uninformed.

2: Things like this are incredibly common. My point was that you don't see people being charged on a regular basis, despite the fact that this sort of behavior is incredibly prevalent. For the record, my personal opinion is that what he did was horrible, but I'm not prepared to condemn him precisely because that sort of sensationalism has at best a distance relationship with fact. Also, why is the first thing you go to is "trololol you only read the headline"? I read the whole article, if it deserves to be called such, and it frankly doesn't provide much more than a sentence or two that weren't covered by the headline. And automatically accusing me of trolling, because we have differing opinions?

Also, if you want to follow me around online, I don't particularly care, because I'm not the sort of person that is bothered by some sad, friendless person trying to get a rise out of my by insulting me over the internet. Again, I don't disagree with you that what he did was incredibly wrong, but that doesn't mean that we should automatically condemn him based on a single, one page article posted on a news site, for the same reason that I don't take most media reports at face value.

As for pretty bold statements, ever heard of hypocracy? You swing from being outraged at the fact that I started on a wrong assumption about you to insulting be for having a different opinion. Yeah, it was probably pretty stupid of me to assume that you didn't know anyone with Aspergers, but I also didn't start saying "Hurr durr you are a complete jackass who should be disregarded by everyone here! How would you like it if I stalked you online?!".

Again, sorry if I offended you.

Fakeedit: Seriously, I'm going to drop this to avoid any sort of potential flamewar, and I hope you will as well. 

[Gunner-Chan]

But his puinshment was extrmely harsh. Free speech and playing to the Media Watchdogs and Soccer Moms are edvient in this case to extreme amounts, making it hard to take a lot of stuff about how this an perfect puinshment seriously.

Actually insulting or defaming speech isn't protected at all in the UK through specific exceptions. Along with a variety of other things.

[Heliman]

Also, have you ever known someone with Aspergers? If not, you really aren't fit to judge. Hell, I probably shouldn't either, and I've seen the effects it has on an individual through a relative. It isn't a matter of them not caring that they're violating social norms, it is (at least in my experience) that  they genuinely don't understand the basics of interpersonal communication on the same level that others do. Of course, I can't speak from personal experience, only ancedotal evidence, but you damn well can't either.

The hell we can't! Case in point- Vector has Aspergers. In addition, a surprising amount of other people on this forum do too. Yes, they may not understand the basics of social norms, but they are not incapable of learning them.

Like I said, that was personal experience with one individual I knew who had pretty severe social issues; there are plenty of people who are for all intents and purposes "normal". The point is, we don't know if this person knew what he was doing. Until we do, we can't really judge whether he was guilty of intent.

There's legally established precedent for being declared criminally insane. If he was not found to be such by the court, we can only assume that he was socially adept enough to process what he was doing.

1: I clearly stated that that was if you had absolutely no personal knowledge, along with the acknowledgement that even with ancedotal evidence none of us are (I assume) researchers in the field, so all of our opinions are relatively uninformed.

so if we don't have a doctorate in the subject, we shouldn't talk about it? I bet you don't have a doctorate in english, you shouldn't type, because you only have "ancedotal" knowledge of coposition. Get that ethos out o ere'.

2: Things like this are incredibly common. My point was that you don't see people being charged on a regular basis, despite the fact that this sort of behavior is incredibly prevalent. For the record, my personal opinion is that what he did was horrible, but I'm not prepared to condemn him precisely because that sort of sensationalism has at best a distance relationship with fact. Also, why is the first thing you go to is "trololol you only read the headline"? I read the whole article, if it deserves to be called such, and it frankly doesn't provide much more than a sentence or two that weren't covered by the headline. And automatically accusing me of trolling, because we have differing opinions?

Of course people don't get caught often on the internet, it's the internet. you know, the whole anonymity thing. Facebook wasn't the reason he was mentioned, it was the reason he was caught, simply because of the large amount of information available on Facebook. Also, Crippty was just trolling you as an example to show the difference between trolling and online harassment. Don't feed the ephemeral troll.

Also, if you want to follow me around online, I don't particularly care, because I'm not the sort of person that is bothered by some sad, friendless person trying to get a rise out of my by insulting me over the internet. Again, I don't disagree with you that what he did was incredibly wrong, but that doesn't mean that we should automatically condemn him based on a single, one page article posted on a news site, for the same reason that I don't take most media reports at face value.

As for pretty bold statements, ever heard of hypocracy? You swing from being outraged at the fact that I started on a wrong assumption about you to insulting be for having a different opinion. Yeah, it was probably pretty stupid of me to assume that you didn't know anyone with Aspergers, but I also didn't start saying "Hurr durr you are a complete jackass who should be disregarded by everyone here! How would you like it if I stalked you online?!".

Seeeeee the previous paragraph. Cript can be a an ass a big, meanie poo-poo head, but no troll. Regardless, he's probably chuckling right now at the misunderstanding.

[Criptfeind]

Come on I need to practice my E-stalking, is your name Steven?

1: I clearly stated that that was if you had absolutely no personal knowledge, along with the acknowledgement that even with ancedotal evidence none of us are (I assume) researchers in the field, so all of our opinions are relatively uninformed.

That. Is not how you came across. You start with a "If not, you really aren't fit to judge." But then you immediate launch into a rant as if I had answered in the negative. Ending with a "you damn well can't either." That is not exactly clearly stated.

2: Things like this are incredibly common. My point was that you don't see people being charged on a regular basis, despite the fact that this sort of behavior is incredibly prevalent.

First off, I want a conformation here, are you talking about trolling or harassment? If trolling: That is not what he did. If harassment: People are charged for that all the time off line, and although it is rarer online I see no reason not to apply it there as well.

At any rate, what I take disagreement to is the way you seemed to imply it was a witch hunt against people with disorders, which... It was not. You can not hide behind such things for serious offensive things like this.

Fact is, he went further then most people, and presumably, did not stay as annon or whatever the fuck, so he got caught and was made a example of.

If that is a good idea or not is a separate issue from his disorder.

Also, why is the first thing you go to is "trololol you only read the headline"? And automatically accusing me of trolling, because we have differing opinions?

Also, if you want to follow me around online, I don't particularly care, because I'm not the sort of person that is bothered by some sad, friendless person trying to get a rise out of my by insulting me over the internet.

As for pretty bold statements, ever heard of hypocracy? You swing from being outraged at the fact that I started on a wrong assumption about you to insulting be for having a different opinion. Yeah, it was probably pretty stupid of me to assume that you didn't know anyone with Aspergers, but I also didn't start saying "Hurr durr you are a complete jackass who should be disregarded by everyone here! How would you like it if I stalked you online?!".

That was a -example- The idea is to bring it to a more personal level so you can understand. Also, I never accused you of trolling, not even in the 'example.'

Again, sorry if I offended you.

Fakeedit: Seriously, I'm going to drop this to avoid any sort of potential flamewar, and I hope you will as well. 

Don't worry, I don't get offended by talking to you guys. The most you have offended me ever was with that smiley face.

Also, I think that you saying 'lets not have this conversation' after you posted all of that shows a lack of sincerity. If you want to stop, just stop and don't post anymore, don't try to get in one last jab or to have the last word.

For my end, I will not stop so long as there is something to talk about and I still have writers block.

[Dsarker]

So by virtue of the fact that I have an ASD, I have the knowledge to talk about it? Let's get someting straight here. From what I'm getting from your posts, FD (sorry, I'm typing on a phone, so any abbreviations I can use will increase efficiency), only people with personal experience OR who are doing research in the field (presumably you mean official/medical/funded research? If I'm wrong, do correct me) can talk about people with an ASD. Okay. Let's examine some of my self-knowledge of what effects an ASD has had on me.

I found it hard to make friends. Okay. Cool. But that's not because of my ASD. That's because I was being bullied (I read books a lot. A LOT. Seriously, two-three books a day). I had a close group of friends. So that is, in your eyes, sufficient proof to show that ASD does not prevent making friends.

Now, if you are to make friends, you need to be able to follow social norms of the society you are in, to at least some degree. If we reductio ad absurdum that, we can see that if we did things completely the opposite to the way our society does (for example, saying goodbye when you mean hello, using degrading pronouns instead of the person's name, shooting people when you like their company), you will be unable to make friends. If we make it less absurd, we could probably find a limit to which you must understand the social norms and follow them in order to make friends, which we're using as the benchmark for social norm understanding. But I can't be bothered. Why, then, if it is possible for me (and did someone mention Vector?) to make friends, with our apparent lack of ability to understand social norms, then how come we have no understanding and no CAPACITY for understanding social norms in a different context?

[Criptfeind]

In the future we will have this same conversation, only about someone without cyborg parts.

I have just realized this.

[Heliman]

and did someone mention Vector?

Sup!

In the future we will have this same conversation, only about someone without cyborg parts.

I have just realized this.

Ok, that earned a tired 2:00 in the morning laugh. Those are pretty rare.

[Dsarker]

People who have cyborg parts can fit in with social norms just as well as us normal folk! If you don't have cyborg parts, you can't talk. If you do, you're a second class citizen and can't talk either.

[Heliman]

But they don't have any mental augumentations! You can't tell what they're doing all the time! It's like they're hiding something.


Ok, this is getting silly.

Everyone, group BFF hug, it's 2 in the morning, goodnight, Fuck, I mean good day, I hate all nighters.