Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Heliman]

Human life is a terminal illness...

Many people say that to make dying people feel better, but it's not the case.
Illness is described specifically as an unhealthy condition of body or mind, to say that life is a terminal illness is to say that a healthy person is immortal.

[Bohandas]

Human life is a terminal illness...

Many people say that to make dying people feel better, but it's not the case.
Illness is described specifically as an unhealthy condition of body or mind, to say that life is a terminal illness is to say that a healthy person is immortal.

No, to say that life is a terminal illness is to say that a dead person is immortal; Which in some technical senses of the term (such as if "immortal" is defined as "not able to die") is technically a correct statement.

[Gunner-Chan]

To say life is a terminal illness is to be a shitty internet nihilist. Because that's not correct in a technical or poetic sense, at all.

[Criptfeind]

Ah the beauty of the metaphor, allowing you be argue and get no where with 200% more reliability.

But, due to what I perceive is the cause of suicide (emotional pressure, in this case, because the bullying "caused" it), if you're able to reasonably shut yourself off from the cause (emotional pressure) in one case, and are not in the other, I can understand your reasoning less in the former.

Hum I suppose I can understand your reasoning to a certain extent here, although the idea of completely shutting oneself off or expecting one to do so is something I do not agree with. IE: They should not have to shut themselves off, nor would I blame them for not despite the consequences. At least not on the theoretical level.

BTW, in regard to suicide, why is it more tragic when somebody who wants to die dies than when somebody who doesn't want to die dies?

It is not, but it is a not the same type of tragity, thus some view it as more or less relative to others by their ability to relate. More specifically, many times there is a concrete reason for death. He got shot. She got crushed. It's not quite as easy with suicide, and it is at the same time less arbitrary, more likely something could be done.

And my understanding, suicidal people don't want to die so much as stop hurting so badly that death is a price they're willing to pay. But still a price.

"understanding" There are many reasons for suicide. Of which that is only one.

[freeformschooler]

But, due to what I perceive is the cause of suicide (emotional pressure, in this case, because the bullying "caused" it), if you're able to reasonably shut yourself off from the cause (emotional pressure) in one case, and are not in the other, I can understand your reasoning less in the former.

Hum I suppose I can understand your reasoning to a certain extent here, although the idea of completely shutting oneself off or expecting one to do so is something I do not agree with. IE: They should not have to shut themselves off, nor would I blame them for not despite the consequences. At least not on the theoretical level.

Yeah, that is certainly a problem. In that, outside of shutting yourself off from the bully, it is basically just like real life bullying. And that's why I can only deal in theoretical level arguments here: a real, reasonable person PROBABLY wouldn't just stop using the internet or the service through which they're being harassed.

I want to state that things like this are why the sigtext thread is great and I should start using it:

Ah the beauty of the metaphor, allowing you to argue and get no where with 200% more reliability

[Bauglir]

And my understanding, suicidal people don't want to die so much as stop hurting so badly that death is a price they're willing to pay. But still a price.

"understanding" There are many reasons for suicide. Of which that is only one.

True, but it's usually the reasoning I hear (from people studying suicide and, on the rare occasion I've been involved, suicidal people). It's not universal, just my experience and something I can understand, and I thought it would be a helpful perspective for someone asking.

[Dsarker]

And my understanding, suicidal people don't want to die so much as stop hurting so badly that death is a price they're willing to pay. But still a price.

"understanding" There are many reasons for suicide. Of which that is only one.

True, but it's usually the reasoning I hear (from people studying suicide and, on the rare occasion I've been involved, suicidal people). It's not universal, just by experience and something I can understand, and I thought it would be a helpful perspective for someone asking.

Wanting to commit suicide is a sign that your brain is disordered. Three possible vectors (as far as I can discern).

External person. E.g., you get bullied for a year and that causes an inbalance in serotonin that causes depression that causes you to commit suicide. Either manslaughter or murder.

External environment. E.g., a homosexual raised in a fundamentalist Christian family. Through unwelcoming/discouraging environment, feels for whatever reason that they don't deserve to live. Causes depression, causes suicide. Manslaughter (possibly. If it's not possible to pin the crime on person, no crime? Someone help me with this.)

Internal. E.g., brain has inherent imbalance. Causes depression, causes suicide. Negligence, maybe?

[Bauglir]

Er. Wrong quote?

[Dsarker]

The first bit was for you

[Criptfeind]

Hum. That is a dangerous area you wander into Dsarker.

[Bauglir]

Then I'm... really confused. Are you agreeing? I suppose posting the more physiological circumstances that lead to that reasoning manifesting is kind of agreement?

[Dsarker]

How do you mean, Cryptfeind?


Bauglir, I'm just posting my own uninformed and completely unscientific ideas as to other causes of depression, manifesting in suicide.

[Frumple]

You're also missing one of the more common stated (at least) reasons for suicide or attempted suicide, namely to relieve a burden on loved ones/society. One of the more regularly given reasons for suicide among the disabled and elderly, from what I understand. Might be able to fit into the B), but the external situation is neither hostile nor the major reason for considering suicide (internal love for others is).

Depending on certain other commitments, suicide might also be seen as the most rational, or at worse least painful, choice given a particular situation. It might be better than life imprisonment, for example, or when falsely accused of something that will leave a powerful stigma even once absolved of guilt, effectively ruining one's chances at much of a future. Also, re: Socrates, heh.

Suicide's not a very clear cut issue, honestly, especially if you actually give a sympathetic ear to those considering it. Calling considering it a disease or brain disorder is, in my opinion, drastically underestimating the complexity of the situation.

[Heliman]

And my understanding, suicidal people don't want to die so much as stop hurting so badly that death is a price they're willing to pay. But still a price.

"understanding" There are many reasons for suicide. Of which that is only one.

True, but it's usually the reasoning I hear (from people studying suicide and, on the rare occasion I've been involved, suicidal people). It's not universal, just by experience and something I can understand, and I thought it would be a helpful perspective for someone asking.

Wanting to commit suicide is a sign that your brain is disordered. Three possible vectors (as far as I can discern).

External person. E.g., you get bullied for a year and that causes an inbalance in serotonin that causes depression that causes you to commit suicide. Either manslaughter or murder.

External environment. E.g., a homosexual raised in a fundamentalist Christian family. Through unwelcoming/discouraging environment, feels for whatever reason that they don't deserve to live. Causes depression, causes suicide. Manslaughter (possibly. If it's not possible to pin the crime on person, no crime? Someone help me with this.)

Internal. E.g., brain has inherent imbalance. Causes depression, causes suicide. Negligence, maybe?

If this is were to be the accepted types of suicide, all of your punishments would be impossible to discern.  Any external cause for suicide would be rendered void by the reasonable doubt caused by a possible internal reason.

You're also missing one of the more common stated (at least) reasons for suicide or attempted suicide, namely to relieve a burden on loved ones/society. One of the more regularly given reasons for suicide among the disabled and elderly, from what I understand.

That classifies under external enviornment.

Human life is a terminal illness...

Many people say that to make dying people feel better, but it's not the case.
Illness is described specifically as an unhealthy condition of body or mind, to say that life is a terminal illness is to say that a healthy person is immortal.

No, to say that life is a terminal illness is to say that a dead person is immortal; Which in some technical senses of the term (such as if "immortal" is defined as "not able to die") is technically a correct statement.

Ok, let me put it this way.

It is suddenly given that Life is a terminal illness.
An illness is an unhealthy condition of body or mind.
If any living person is terminally ill, they are unhealthy.
If a person is near death, he must be unhealthy.
For a person to be healthy, he must be not unhealthy
.'. A healthy person can never die.

[Criptfeind]

How do you mean, Cryptfeind?

Talking of criminal punishments specifically for causes of as hard to understand as suicide?

Also I before E except after C.