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[Lectorog]

The problem with that argument is it wasn't really relevant. Neither is the holocaust stuff by the way.

My point was that governments aren't automatically absolved of all wrongdoing simply by virtue of being governments.

Yes, but they are usually the government because a majority of the population thinks they handle the problems the way they should be handled.
Thus, governments will usually be right. At least, most people will see it as such.

I've got to be honest, cyberbullying (and other social harassment) is a FUCKTON harder to avoid on the internet than in real life. Especially on places like facebook where there is no anonymity because its an extension of your real life social network (usually). Your options are basically use facebook or don't use facebook. And even if you choose NOT to use facebook, your friends will, and if the guy is going around messaging all your friends about how much of a whore your dead daughter was, you're probably going to have trouble getting away from it.

If you meet someone in real-life who's an asshole, you just stay the hell away from them. If they hit you, big whoop, you get a little bruised, I don't think getting hit is usually enough to make someone kill themselves (and then you can charge them with assault, problem solved). And if they start following you around, showing up at your house, dropping messages off in your mailbox, interrupting dinners and movies out with friends... well, they get brought in for harassment. Especially if they are doing it solely to hurt you.

On the internet, we aren't so lucky. A sufficiently dedicated troll WILL find, will ruin your good name (even if its psudeonymous), and can make your online social life a living hell, and just the feeling of knowing someone is always going to be there waiting to hurt you, I can see how that would be incredibly damaging.

If you don't understand how a cyber-bully can push someone to suicide, I don't see how you believe its possible for anyone to ever be pushed to suicide by anyone. I'm making no comment on the legality thereof, but I don't see how it would work much different than it does in real life.

You can create a semi-anonymous Facebook account (not use your real name, only add good friends). Most trolls won't bother to track you down. People seriously harassing you will; that's where they make that decision.

This guy went out of his way to make several peoples' lives miserable by taunting dead family members. That's not just trolling, to most people.

[Bohandas]

...emo teenagers and mentally ill people...

I think this is a false dichotomy. Anyone emo enough to respond to cyberbullying with suicide IS mentally ill.

[Leafsnail]

And therefore they deserve to die, seems to be your implication.

[Bohandas]

The problem with that argument is it wasn't really relevant. Neither is the holocaust stuff by the way.

My point was that governments aren't automatically absolved of all wrongdoing simply by virtue of being governments.

Yes, but they are usually the government because a majority of the population thinks they handle the problems the way they should be handled.
Thus, governments will usually be right. At least, most people will see it as such.

Just because people agree with it doesn't make it right, although I will grant that it may make it less wrong. I believe it was Winston Churchill who said "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

[a1s]

As far as I can see, there is no way to logically convince anyone in a utilitarian manner than only emo teenagers and mentally ill people would respond to bullying, online or not, through suicide, so unless you provide a logical counterpoint, I don't see the relevance here to my original point.

I'm not sure what you want, but would statistical data be "utilitarian"?
From a psychological point of view (probably not "utilitarian", this is a different argument) if you killed yourself, you were mentally ill, since you appear to have lost the sense of self-preservation, your would be strongest drive. Heading off a question here: yes, all those people who throw themselves at machine gun nests and under tyrannical government's tanks, though they might be heroes, are nonetheless suffering from psychosis.

[Bohandas]

And therefore they deserve to die, seems to be your implication.

No, but perhaps they should be institutionalized and treated for whatever is wrong with their brain until such time as they are no longer a danger to themselves or to commuters/travelers.

[Strife26]

If you are willing to work at it, you can *always* drive someone crazy. A social Darwinist argument isn't really a sound one, you know?

[Heliman]

Heckling mourners isn't constitutionally protected speech here.

It should be.

And therefore they deserve to die, seems to be your implication.

No, but perhaps they should be institutionalized and treated for whatever is wrong with their brain until such time as they are no longer a danger to themselves or to commuters.

See, now you're treating depression like it's something that others can catch early and goes away in a week with the right perscription of pills.
Depression is sometimes well hidden.
Depression sometimes never goes away, hanging over your head for years. Are you saying that people should be incarcerated for years because they feel sad?

[Ochita]

Its never the brain that is wrong, because then you would be insinuating that for some people, they always want to commit suicide. Which is wrong. Its a deep emotional and mental issue, which is different from the brain itself being sick. As Heliman said, depression can be hidden, and it can last for ages, do people really deserve to be separated from others for months, or years? What about friends?

[a1s]

suicide and suicidal behavior are not normal responses to stress; many people have these risk factors, but are not suicidal. Research also shows that the risk for suicide is associated with changes in brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, including serotonin. Decreased levels of serotonin have been found in people with depression, impulsive disorders, and a history of suicide attempts, and in the brains of suicide victims

There ya go: you only commit suicide if you have a chemical imbalance in the head, i.e. are mentally ill.
Scratch that- I can't read, apparently. I should probably go to bed anyway- it's after midnight here.

[Bohandas]

If you are willing to work at it, you can *always* drive someone crazy. A social Darwinist argument isn't really a sound one, you know?

I can see someone being provoked into trying to kill the person bullying them, but I cannot see someone being provoked into killing themself unless they either are already emotionally unstable or else are subjected to some kind of really intense brainwashing.

[Bohandas]

suicide and suicidal behavior are not normal responses to stress; many people have these risk factors, but are not suicidal. Research also shows that the risk for suicide is associated with changes in brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, including serotonin. Decreased levels of serotonin have been found in people with depression, impulsive disorders, and a history of suicide attempts, and in the brains of suicide victims

There ya go: you only commit suicide if you have a chemical imbalance in the head, i.e. are mentally ill.

Thank You!

[Vector]

Correlation, causation, blah blah blah, a1s.

I'm going to go with not wanting to be incarcerated, thanks.  Dorothea Dix won me some rights, and I'm keeping them.

[Gunner-Chan]

Armchair psychiatry is the worst psychiatry. Especially when it's done by some people here that seem to know next to nothing about what they're talking about.

Which is seeming to be the problem here. Assumptions and generalizations everywhere.

[jc6036]

Wow, this thread be movin fast. Confusing argument aside, I think that this man definatly deserves the sentence he got. This guy went beyond trolling and into the illegal harassment zone. As for the whole depression argument that is bound to spring up due to one post, I don't think that many people have had a lot of experience with suicidal depression, and I agree that part of the daughters problem may just have been raging teenage hormones. As for whether or not people commiting suicide are mentally ill, I say yes, as they have lost the capacity for self preservation. Even one chemical in ones brain missing could qualify as mental illness.