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Author Topic: Procedural Mythology Generator  (Read 3591 times)

ductape

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Procedural Mythology Generator
« on: September 12, 2011, 08:43:15 pm »

I want to talk about ideas on how something like a procedural mythology generator could work. It could be used for mythology, or stories of sets of people, tribes, clans, etc. My main focus to start would be mythology because the archetypes are usually clear, an the relationships between gods seem easier to define. Of course it could grow from there, but mythology seems a good place to start.

First we would want to define some things, like what sort of pantheon, do we have the sort of setup where there is one god who is the "top" god over the rest? Or do we have a level playing field where all the gods compete? Do we have a "one god" type of mythology with lesser beings below that god? (think christian god and angels)

Next we would define how many gods make up the pantheon and their names. Then figure out what differentiates the gods from each other. Are the gods personalities based on aspects of the natural worlds such as air, water, earth? What are the different aspects and pantheon themes we can have? Defining the aspects of the gods and what they are based on should have heavy influence on how many gods you need  to fill out the pantheon.

Now we get into relationships. We can set a starting point for the relationships between each god. Then we could move them down a timeline, setting some events in the pathway. These events, the actions of the gods, and the outcomes would start to define how their relationships and roles change over time.

And the results of all that, would be somehow arranged into story form.

What think ye my dwarfy fellows? Any examples of people attempting this? Any thoughts on what has worked before and what can be improved on? Any thoughts on a programming language to make it happen in?

EDIT:
I have been reading this thread over on TIGsource and it has some good stuff in it:
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=15652.15

EDIT2:
another interesting resource:
http://chaoticshiny.com/religiongen.php
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 01:31:13 am by ductape »
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Nivim

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Re: Procedural Mythology Generator
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 09:41:48 pm »

 For the first three questions, usually the order of the gods in a mythology is a reflection of the cultural order in the group who has that mythology. An alpha-male dominant group is going to tend to have the greater god with a bunch of others below, whereas you tend to only see gods being approximately equal and competing in groups that experience a similar situation amongst themselves (although I don't think I've ever seen this in history, as those groups tend not to hold equilibrium long enough to build mythos). Of course, if you're talking about a universe where the gods really do exist outside of story and myth, but are influenced by it, then the "equally powerful competing gods" tends to be a lot more common, because the cultures that cannot accept that other gods exist/are-a-threat/are-equal are wiped out by those who both accept it and embrace it.
 If you're talking about gods just appearing from nothingness...then you can pick almost anything, and it's really just up to your preference.

 Have you read Digger?
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ductape

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Re: Procedural Mythology Generator
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 10:27:50 pm »

I have not read Digger. I will look it up.

The Dungeons and Dragons campaign worlds often feature pantheons of gods which all are on a level field, though they compete and at times some raise in power of prominence above others. It is often the idea that the gods are alive, and demand worship. They may or may not walk the material world, maybe they live in some sort of other plane. They may or may not want more worshuppers which gives them more power to compete with the other gods.

Gods sometimes rise and fall in power. Take this example of Cronos and Zeus:

Cronos became father of the gods by murdering his own father, Uranus.  The dying Uranus gave Cronos the prophesy, “You murder me now and steal my throne—but one of your own sons will dethrone you, for crime begets crime.”  Cronos managed to get by this prophesy for a short while because he would swallow all his children when they were born.  His wife, Rhea, however, foiled his plan by giving birth to a son, Zeus.  She hid Zeus with a shepherd family, until one day when Rhea brought him back to the court of gods as the new cupbearer.  Cronos, of couse, did not recognize him.

Rhea and Zeus, plotting against Cronos, concocted a drink for him, one day.  When he drank it, he threw up all of his children that he had swallowed—still alive because gods cannot be digested.  The children and Zeus fought against Cronos, and made him and his army flee.  Zeus became king of the gods, fulfilling the prophesy made to Cronos.


The end goal here is to figure out how to write a computer program that can arrange a pantheon and create some mythological parables from its algorithms. The pantheons and stories can be like real mythologies of Earth, or like the types of mythologies we sometimes see in fantasy novels and worlds.

I do like the idea of the culture defines the mythology and format of the pantheon. This would work most of the time, but what about diverse cultures that all worship the same set of gods, though each culture prefers their patron god, another paradigm we often see in fantasy game settings.

For example, in Forgotten realms, the halflings or Hin have a few gods unto themselves. I think are Arvoreen, Gond, and maybe one more. I'm no expert. These Hin gods exist within a greater pantheon of gods of all the races and cultures of the entire game world. Its even safe to say there are other gods, maybe lesser ones, that are not known. Somehow all these god interact, its as if they all exist on some other plane.

These are all variables, I think the variables would be not hard to implement in a computer program. I think the big question here is if we can generate some meaningful, though SIMPLE, stories from them.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 10:30:32 pm by ductape »
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Gatleos

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Re: Procedural Mythology Generator
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 10:49:42 pm »

These are all variables, I think the variables would be not hard to implement in a computer program. I think the big question here is if we can generate some meaningful, though SIMPLE, stories from them.
The first step to generating these stories, I think, would be to give each deity their own personality traits, spheres, etc. Then they could be given roles in a procedurally generated story. It would be nice if their status would be saved after each story is generated, that way there could be a general timeline for the events. Recurring settings and perhaps a few non-divine characters (mythical heroes, etc.) would help flesh things out as well.
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ductape

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Re: Procedural Mythology Generator
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 01:26:25 am »

I'll take a stab at some pantheon and god generation. I think the steps would go something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thats all I got for now. I will try to come up with some story generation ideas based on this soon.
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