Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Luke_Prowler]

I've only seen the movie, but it's not half bad.

[olemars]

The movie is great (except for the extended edition). It's ridiculously over the top, which is fitting considering the source material. And it goes its own way instead of following the story of the book. The ending made me laugh though.

The new miniseries is OK-ish but follows the book much more closely, which makes for a fairly complicated screenplay with mediocre cast.

[Il Palazzo]

Yes, the muslim Mujahideen and jihad references are pretty thick on Dune, but if we're talking about true real-life inspirations behind the Fremen, you would probably find that Gurkhas [example 1] and [example 2] are a closer match. Then there is the Kukri and its uncanny resemblance to the crysknife, including the legend that it cannot be sheathed unless it draws blood.

I've tried imagining what would a female-written, female-targetted analogy to those articles look like, and the only thing that I could come up with was Twilight. Seriously, who writes those things? A comitee of puberty-entering middleschoolers?

[RedKing]

Ah, a fellow Frank Herbertian fundamentalist.

Indeed. Shai-Hulud's blessings be upon you, water-brother.

He did write lots of none-dune books though. They're not very well known, for a reason...
I have four of them. Two are a bit meh (The Santaroga Barrier, The Green Brain), both very typical classic Sci-fi with a good idea but little substance. The third one was fairly interesting, "The Eyes of Heisenberg". The fourth, The Jesus Incident... I don't think I've ever been so confused after reading a book. It's about a spaceship that has become omnipotent, and it's all downhill from there. Been a while since I read it, but I think a woman gets impregnated by sentient seaweed at some point.

I haven't gotten around to reading them, but I've heard positive things about The White Plague and the ConSentiency books. The main problem with a lot of his other books is that the "big ideas" in them are the same ones that are in Dune. He just tried different ways of trying them out (The Eyes of Heisenberg and Hellstrom's Hive being two of the biggest examples) and they just weren't as satisfying and/or didn't have the fully-fleshed mythos to prop them up that Dune does.

[ChairmanPoo]

It doesn't take a Herbertian fundamentalist to realize that Kevin & Brian's books read like an unfunny parodic fanfic of the originals

[Aklyon]

I wouldn't call the actual main series two fanfic, because although they aren't as solid as the 6 Frank made, they do manage to wrap things up well enough.
For the prequels though, I can see your point there. Lots of fighting, but not too interesting for the rest except for the bits about the Fremen beginnings and why exactly they're called 'Holtzman engines'.

[ChairmanPoo]

I did not like the "House X" novels at all. Characters seem parodies of themselves. The plot doesn't even make much sense (the whole ajid-amal deal was a shaggy dog story). I don't think they wrap up things in any serious manner. If anything, they make everything muddier.

They do give an explanation for that room full of skeletons in Heretics, I'll give you that. But the explanation is another shaggy dog story.

[mainiac]

stories of ghurka badassery

It's not like Ghurkas have a monopoly on badassery.  I could write a similar account about various other elite and special forces throughout history.  It would speed things up a lot if you could point to some sort of evidence that Frank Herbert was well versed in Ghurka history or point out some sort of linguistic similarities between the Fremen and Ghurkas or something like that.

[KaelGotDwarves]

I guessed you missed the entire part about kukris and crysknives sharing the same exact legend, besides the similarities between the tribes and the weapons themselves.

EDIT: And It's not just that Gurkhas share similarities with elite and special forces, it's that entire tribes of the Gurkha prepare for military service from birth, out of necessity that the land they live off of is extremely inhospitable. It's the people as a whole that are "badass", not just their special forces.

[ChairmanPoo]

I think the arabs are a more obvious inspiration.

[mainiac]

I guessed you missed the entire part about kukris and crysknives sharing the same exact legend, besides the similarities between the tribes and the weapons themselves.

EDIT: And It's not just that Gurkhas share similarities with elite and special forces, it's that entire tribes of the Gurkha prepare for military service from birth, out of necessity that the land they live off of is extremely inhospitable. It's the people as a whole that are "badass", not just their special forces.

As opposed to the Apache?  The Zulu?  Ancient Gualic Celts?  Or how about 18th century American hillbillies (scottish-americans living in appalacia)?  This reputation has greatly faded however the bowie knife was considered the ubiquitous symbol of the American hillbilly in the 1840s to 1860s.  They were greatly secretive, prone to blood feuds and considered pretty darn warlike.  And that's right on our bleeding doorstep!

There is a term for two tribes happening to have the same preferred weapon.  That term is "coincidence."    There is nothing new under the sun.  The only thing notable about the ghurkas is that the terrain they fought in was a good force multiplier for these tactics.  Plenty of other people have used the exact same tactics.  It's not like keeping your head down and cutting people is a hard one to think up.

[Il Palazzo]

Don't do this, mainiac... don't murder the legend... leave the dream of badarse ubermenshen alone. What have the Ghurkas ever done to you, you damn meanie?

[mainiac]

Oh, you didn't know that I'm a nazi and hate them for taking down the 3rd reich?

[RedKing]

I think the arabs Tuaregs are a more obvious inspiration.

Fixed.

"Arab" is a pretty broad term, and includes many "soft" urban agriculturalists. The Tuareg fit the bill of the Fremen pretty well: nomadic, living in a vast desert, matrilineal society. Also, Tuareg lore holds that they once lived in grottos in the Atlas Mountains (sietches?) and one of their native terms for themselves (Imashaghen) translates as "the Free People". And many artist's depictions of the Fremen follow the Tuareg look: indigo clothes, facewraps, etc.

There's also elements of the Bedouins, such as the use of Arabic rather than Berber, and titles like Na'ib. According to Herbert himself, he was inspired by a variety of desert cultures, including the Navajo, the "Arabs" (I'm assuming he meant the desert-dwelling Bedouins) and the Bushmen of the Kalahari.
http://www.sinanvural.com/seksek/inien/tvd/tvd2.htm


Incidentally, this made me LOL.

Spoiler: The sleeper has awakened! Annnd he's taking a nap again. (click to show/hide)

[Il Palazzo]

Incidentally, this made me LOL.

Spoiler: The sleeper has awakened! Annnd he's taking a nap again. (click to show/hide)

"I don't mind you using these images, but it's rude to link to them directly. Do us both a favourand host them on your own sever, k?"