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[Aklyon]

I have no idea what you just said Kael, but it would probably fit in at least one place in dune the way it looks.

[Il Palazzo]

Going past Chapterhouse does get rather ridiculous, I'd agree.

Actually, I meant going past God Emperor got ridiculou enough. The whole Dune series appears to be a case of how-much-can-you-take. Some people can't take even Messiah, as we've seen. But that's ok, to each his own.
I do agree with people saying that the original dune was the best stand-alone piece of fiction, though. Each next installment expanded upon the ideas contained in the original, but somewhat diluted the experience.

[Aklyon]

Well, I don't really know what happened in God Emperor. I read some of it, got quite bored, and skipped to Heretics, since I knew it would bring up anything of importance later on.

[mainiac]

I read Dune as Gurkha/Sikh sci-fi fanfic and enjoyed it immensely.

Huh.  Why Gurkha/Sikhs?  I can sorta see the resemblance, but the Arab parallels are pretty thick and it's stated at one point that the Fremen were descended from Sunni Muslims.

[RedKing]

So, Dune. Galaxy of weird religious zealots, sandworms, and shields that nuke you if you laser them.
Also Spice, of course.

It has 8 (6 +2) books. Discuss.

Infidel. It has six books, and the number of the books shall be six. No more, no less. Neither shalt thou count seven, nor five, unless after the counting of Heretics, thou proceedest directly to Chapterhouse. Eight is right out.

Seriously, I wish ghola technology existed so that we could resurrect Frank Herbert to do two things:
1. Keep writing more books.
2. Beat the living shit out of his son until he swears not to write anything ever again.


I think Children is probably my favorite of the series, and perhaps the best written. But I love all of them. The last two get very complicated and suffer from the classic "old man writer's malady" (i.e. too much preoccupation with sex), but they are awesome in their own ways.

One thing that Herbert is notorious for (and at the same time, which endears much of the series to me) is his creation and use of 'munchkin' characters. Paul is not only the well-trained son of an Imperial Duke, he's received secret Bene Genesserit prana-bindu training, *and* Ginaz swordmaster training *and* he's become a Fremen *and* he takes the Water of Life and becomes damn-near omniscient. Later on, Murbella becomes the leader of the Honored Matres and the leader of the Bene Gesserit about thirty seconds apart (the former by killing the previous leader, the latter by inheritance from the dying Reverend Mother Superior).

If Frank Herbert played D&D, all his characters would be lvl 36 fighter/mage/thief/clerics/ranger/druid/monks. With maxed stats. But he managed to do it in a way that made sense in-universe. Brian Herbert took that trick, amped it up to 11, and generally explained it with a total ass pull. 

[Aklyon]

I'd say 6, but then I'd have to say I read more than what existed, and I have no idea how to explain that.

Having ghola tech might be a bit awkward though, unless there were actually volunteers.

[RedKing]

I'd say 6, but then I'd have to say I read more than what existed, and I have no idea how to explain that.

Having ghola tech might be a bit awkward though, unless there were actually volunteers.

Nah, the Ixians invented mechanical wombs, remember?

[Itnetlolor]

Any mention of Dune brings back this bit of nostalgia.

Fun game, awesome music, one of the first fun RTSs.


WAR-WARN-WARNING! INCOMING MISSILE!! (3 death hand missiles nuke a base.)

Actually, one time, I launched maybe about 15 death hands (or was it about 24?) at the same time. Poor emperor must've crapped himself at the sight.

[Aklyon]

When did they do that?
You have a point, though.

[Vattic]

I read Dune as Gurkha/Sikh sci-fi fanfic and enjoyed it immensely.

Huh.  Why Gurkha/Sikhs?  I can sorta see the resemblance, but the Arab parallels are pretty thick and it's stated at one point that the Fremen were descended from Sunni Muslims.

I assume Gurkha because the Gurkha are renowned for being hardy warriors. I don't know a lot about Sikhs but likely the same.

Kael: I was once told that you should never say charge to a Gurkha because they don't stop until they hit the ocean. This was from a otherwise reliable military fanatic but I can't find reference online; Do you know of this?

[Neyvn]

I should really get back to finishing Dune...
Check my Livestream... ^_^

[nenjin]

I thought they just tried to melt the house he was in, and he escaped before that happened but not early enough to avoid the irreparable eye damage, and they used that particular one to minimize collateral damage or something? I'm not sure on that, it's been years.

Stop and look at the logic for a second. They use a lesser but still banned nuclear weapon trying to kill one man and consider it as reducing collateral damage over another, far less insane option. And it has the added benefit of fulfilling teh prophecy.

Using a nuke to blow a hole in the Curtain Wall makes perfect, logical sense if you accept the premise that its huge and worth blowing a hole through to assault.

Using a nuke to kill one guy who, for some reason, failed to know (or did he?!) that he's about to get s'nuked because that's your best tactical option, and you still ultimately play into "his" (as in the author's) hands? Maybe I'm prescient, because I kind of knew shit was only going down hill from Dune after that.

If Frank Herbert played D&D, all his characters would be lvl 36 fighter/mage/thief/clerics/ranger/druid/monks. With maxed stats. But he managed to do it in a way that made sense in-universe. Brian Herbert took that trick, amped it up to 11, and generally explained it with a total ass pull.

Now take that example into story context. If Paul Atredies were a D&D character, he would have broken most of the rules and trivialized most content by Book 2, and said "Can we find a new game to play." But nu. The saga, it must continue!

My curiosity has been piqued now too, since apparently I checked out of the series before it really got strange.

[KaelGotDwarves]

I have no idea what you just said Kael, but it would probably fit in at least one place in dune the way it looks.

Gurkha soldiers have historically used "Jai Mahakali, Ayo Gorkhali", meaning "Victory to Goddess Mahakali, the Gurkhas are coming." This is still used by the Nepalese army and Nepalese army regiments of the Nepali Army, Indian Army and British Army.

Sikh soldiers have historically used "Jo Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal", meaning "He who cries God is Truth is ever blessed".

Huh.  Why Gurkha/Sikhs?  I can sorta see the resemblance, but the Arab parallels are pretty thick and it's stated at one point that the Fremen were descended from Sunni Muslims.

Yes, the muslim Mujahideen and jihad references are pretty thick on Dune, but if we're talking about true real-life inspirations behind the Fremen, you would probably find that Gurkhas [example 1] and [example 2] are a closer match. Then there is the Kukri and its uncanny resemblance to the crysknife, including the legend that it cannot be sheathed unless it draws blood.

    The spelling of Khukri has been in dispute for some time. It has been documented as Khookree, Kookerie, Khukri, Khukuri, Kukery, Kukoori, Koukoori, and Kukri. These are mostly from early British accounts. The spoken word is actually 3 syllables: ( koo - ker - ee ). Today's accepted spellings are Kukri or Khukri
 
    As far as I can tell (culled from several historical versions), the present Khukri design found it's origins with the Ghurka tribes in or around the 7th century BC (about 2500 years ago). It may have been a derivative of some of the short swords of the day, either of early Greek design, or of those of the Macedonians who invaded Northwest India around the 4th century BC. The curved design as we know it today, however derived, was born in the hills of Nepal, and it was used for both farming and for battle. Several offshoot designs emerged ranging from smaller versions on the order of 8-10 inches in length, to massive two-handed broadsword versions several feet in length.
 
    The first well-documented (written) accounts of the knife and of the Ghurka tribes come from the British who had taken control of India in the 1800's. The British had been advancing Northward, but suddenly encountered fierce resistance as they advanced into what is modern day Nepal. The Ghurkas not only resisted the British troops, they drove them back. This is something that the British were not at all used to. They called in reinforcements, and then again moved forward. The accounts of what happened are gruesome. The Ghurkas seemed to materialize out of the jungle itself for long enough to cleanly lop a head or limb, and would then disappear before the guns came to bear. The British would set camp for the night, and though they posted sentries, men would die during the night. They were found in the morning with their heads cleanly removed, yet the sentries would not see or hear any intruders. At times the British encountered the Ghurkas in groups. The British soldiers had fine rifles and were the renowned marksmen of the day. The Ghurka were armed only with Khukris, yet were not cowed. Instead they mounted charges, dodging and weaving through the thickets until they were right on top of the British troops. The British went to bayonets, but one account describes the Ghurka tactics as follows:
 
    "When they come near, they suddenly crouch to the ground, drive under the bayonets and strike upward at the men with their knives, ripping them open in a single blow."
 
    The British wisely withdrew from these areas, and then they did something very uncharacteristic. They sent emissaries to make peace with the Ghurka. Treaties were made that had far-reaching consequences. Since that day, the Ghurka have fought alongside British troops in every major engagement, including two world wars, and hundreds of minor skirmishes. In trench warfare against the German forces, the Ghurka performed astounding feats that were legendary for their stealth and courage. They were said to have regularly slipped through German lines, past the sentries, and into the trenches and foxholes. The German forces slept two troops per foxhole. The Ghurka were known to have cut the throat of one man from each foxhole without waking the second man. This was done so that the remaining Germans, upon waking, would find their dead right next to them. Those that were left alive quickly spread the story amongst the rest and, as you can imagine, this type of psychological operation had devastating consequences to the morale of frontline German troops as a whole.
 
    Today, Ghurka warriors stand side-by-side with British troops in Iraq, and the famous Khukri knife is still their fighting knife of choice. In many villages, Ghurka warriors still hand make their own knife, a skill passed from father to son when they reach maturity. To this day, the standard military issue Khukris for Ghurka forces are individually hand made. Making a Khukri is a task that takes four men an entire day. There is no machinery used, and as such, no two Khukris are alike.

Ghurkas are still calmly beheading their enemies in Afghanistan although now they get a "slap on the wrist".

As for the Sikhs, the typical example is The Battle of Saragarhi, in which 21 Sikhs fought to the last man against over 10000 Afghans and delayed them long enough for the neighboring forts to be reinforced and led to the Afghans beaten back.

Their culture is also similarly interesting as the Gurkhas, mandating the carrying of knives at all time.

Kael: I was once told that you should never say charge to a Gurkha because they don't stop until they hit the ocean. This was from a otherwise reliable military fanatic but I can't find reference online; Do you know of this?

The former British Chief of staff of the Indian Army, Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, said: “If a man says he is not afraid of dying, he is either lying or is a Gurkha."

There are also many unverifiable stories, including those on the Daily Mail link, attributed to their fierceness in battle. One that I have heard is about a group of Special Forces in Afghanistan that developed a feeling of chagrin following a group of Gurkhas clearing a building with flashbangs and their kukris. There are WW2 stories that involve lots of headless enemies and hordes of enemies getting fought off by small numbers of Gurkhas. But then there are the common verifiable ones, like one Gurkha fighting off over a dozen insurgents single-handedly.

[olemars]

The Fremen are actually described as descendants of "zensunni wanderers" so a mix of arabic and eastern inspiration is quite likely. Their way of life and the few fremen words mentioned seem more inspired by arabic/touareg though. For instance, 'Souk' is arabic for 'market' and Fedaykin is close to Fedayeen, which roughly translates to "follower willing to sacrifice". Not surprisingly used by a number of militant group in the middle east.

Also known as one of the best PC adventure-ish game intros.

What version is that? I've played the(or was it one of many?) PC release of Dune, and it was almost identical to the Amiga version, apart from having different art for Paul's face. And music, of course. It was a funny time in the history of computer games, when Amiga had much better sound capabilities than PCs.

It's from a somewhat rare CD edition. The difference is mostly a few rendered 3D animations (seen when travelling) and using the intro straight from the movie. I think those couple of minutes of video is 90% of the content on the CD. I believe it also had an audio CD with a digitized soundtrack made by the original composer.

Infidel. It has six books, and the number of the books shall be six. No more, no less. Neither shalt thou count seven, nor five, unless after the counting of Heretics, thou proceedest directly to Chapterhouse. Eight is right out.

Seriously, I wish ghola technology existed so that we could resurrect Frank Herbert to do two things:
1. Keep writing more books.
2. Beat the living shit out of his son until he swears not to write anything ever again.

Ah, a fellow Frank Herbertian fundamentalist.

He did write lots of none-dune books though. They're not very well known, for a reason...
I have four of them. Two are a bit meh (The Santaroga Barrier, The Green Brain), both very typical classic Sci-fi with a good idea but little substance. The third one was fairly interesting, "The Eyes of Heisenberg". The fourth, The Jesus Incident... I don't think I've ever been so confused after reading a book. It's about a spaceship that has become omnipotent, and it's all downhill from there. Been a while since I read it, but I think a woman gets impregnated by sentient seaweed at some point.

[Durin Stronginthearm]

I thought they just tried to melt the house he was in, and he escaped before that happened but not early enough to avoid the irreparable eye damage, and they used that particular one to minimize collateral damage or something? I'm not sure on that, it's been years.

Using a nuke to kill one guy who, for some reason, failed to know (or did he?!) that he's about to get s'nuked because that's your best tactical option, and you still ultimately play into "his" (as in the author's) hands? Maybe I'm prescient, because I kind of knew shit was only going down hill from Dune after that.

He did know. He let this happen deliberately so that he wouldn't have to do to himself what his son does at the end of Children of Dune, or at least this is what I've always though.

I'm also pretty sure that causing blindness is a side effect of stone burners, not the primary intention.

And yeah, I'd also like to do some serious harm to Brian Herbert. He has no flair for writing at all, the books he and that other guy wrote are hideously clunky.