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[Urist_McArathos]

Because, unlike you, I'm not going to just say "Vote Dariush again" without providing a reason.  Unlike you, I have an ACTUAL CASE.  You're scum, and it's high time everyone ELSE saw it, so they can hang you and get the leader out of here already.

Hell, you're STILL doing scummy shit.

Oh wow, now I'm a lurker. Are you that desperate for arguments for your shitcase?

Yes, you're a lurker.  I'm not desperate for arguments, I've got half the fucking thread to back THAT claim up.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

At the moment, my top suspect is Dariush, for iffy cases and having brought in the idea of people voting me for being scummy D1.  And lurking.  However, I want to see more content from Urist and Native.

Dariush - He makes a lot of sense sometimes. Hasn't participated a lot though. I'm leaning town.

(Here he outlines part of his case against you)
Your only other two posts before that are your first post RV and a response to a question.

Yeah, you're pretty much scum.

Dariush, Max: Get in here and answer questions already.

Max and Dariush have been prodded. If Max gets another prod, he will be up for replacement. Native posted within the weekend, and as such will not be prodded.

Now I know you're not paying attention

(later, in the same post)

I was waiting on you to have a chance to see what I said before I pounced on you for lurking. Because you had only two posts and basically nothing under your belt when I asked you about it.

Oh, and accusing me of OMGUS?  First off, Native already covered why that isn't by itself a scumtell.  Plus, I voted you first.

[NativeForeigner]

Isn't that question WIFOM in itself?

Hmm, yeah. I guess it is.

NUKE All I'm saying is either get some actual dirt on Toaster or at least don't tunnel. Your argument of "I blocked Toaster and didn't get converted!" has so many holes in it that it might as well not be there. For all we know you're either lying and were converted, right, or the leader had no interesting in converting you N1.

Dariush: Jack is voting you for reasons that are far-less fleshed out than Urist's. He's also accusing you of lurking. Why aren't you getting on him about that? Is it because Urist is the only one you might be able to get lynched? Also, I haven't seen you build much of a case against Urist. Or say ANYTHING in your defense. Why is that?

[Jim Groovester]

Okay, so let me see if I get this.  Yesterday, after a thorough battery of questioning, you tell me "you don't have anything on (me) anyway", yet decide FIRST THING this morning that, hey, actually, you do after all?  There's nothing different from your case you already dismissed yourself, yet now it's worth pressing?  I find that change of mind somewhat suspect, Jim.  However, I've got nothing to hide, so let's have my rebuttal.

Yep.

1. Overly explaining things: I'm wordy, no denials there.  I fail to see how trying my hardest to be clear, thorough, and transparent in my reasoning is scummy.  I'm letting you guys get a nice, fat read on me with every juicy, detailed post.  It would be WIFOM to openly state that I cannot be scum because of this, but I would like to know why it's a scumtell instead of a town tell or just, hell, my meta?  You personally have told me in several games to tone down the length of my replies, so it's nothing new.

It's nice of you to bring your meta into this since I was just about to do the same.

Why did you bring your meta into this?

Oh, right, you're trying to preempt my accusations because you're privately freaking the fuck out about my argument.

I was going to bring up this post from Witches' Coven, wherein you make a passionate speech of your hatred of all things NUKE9.13 and a fierce condemnation of everything he did as scum in a mighty two page diatribe. I told you to dial it back, because it was way too much. It was scummy then and it's scummy now.

You are overdoing it.

2. Not treading on anyone's opinion.  Sure, I guess.  Oh, except for the fact I've been arguing with you, Dariush, and NUKE all throughout Day 1, and even pressed NUKE for a bit after the wagon was shifting away from him.  Toaster didn't interest me, and I didn't see a point in getting involved in Max and Native's pissing contest.  I'm hardly along there, so I think it's a tad untrue to say I'm gingerly avoiding conflict.

For the people you're arguing with, you're very diplomatic. I mean, for fuck's sake, the guy from Scanners? That's overdoing it. That's really overdoing it.

I would have been fine with a simpler explanation without all the frills you put in your post, but no, you were very kind in your explanation and made sure to politely inform me of the ways I was wrong.

3.  Being extremely careful with my vote.  This one is straight up bullshit, Jim.  You know that careless voting, and not really giving a damn who gets lynched is a MAJOR scumtell.  Town should ALWAYS be careful with their votes, because Town have something to lose with a mislynch.  You can't deny if I was being reckless and flippant with my vote you'd call it scummy, so why is the exact opposite a scumtell?  You're putting me in a lose-lose situation with this so-called scumtell Jim.  Why would you do that, when you know better?

Not what you're being careful about.

You're making sure that everybody will be fine with your vote before you cast it, by FoSing them well in advance, for example, and a bunch of other preparatory moves that are pretty obvious. Mostly though, the bullshit FoSes that you cast towards people getting attacked by others.

In any case, Urist is scum for the same reasons as yesterday.

Which are what, again?

Allow me to answer that.

I don't remember asking you what Dariush's argument was.

You're nervous. It's the only explanation for why you went out of your way to answer Dariush's question and fill it full with petty snipes. If Dariush is as scummy as you'd have us believe then you're overreacting by going out of your way to answer a question not directed at you.

Hang, scum.

NativeForeigner and Toaster, what's your read on Urist_McArathos? And why aren't you voting him for the reasons I'm listing?

[NUKE9.13]

NUKE All I'm saying is either get some actual dirt on Toaster or at least don't tunnel. Your argument of "I blocked Toaster and didn't get converted!" has so many holes in it that it might as well not be there. For all we know you're either lying and were converted, right, or the leader had no interesting in converting you N1.

You know, thinking about it now, I don't really care what you think.
Because I can just keep blocking Toaster until there's just me, jack, and toaster left, whereupon town wins by default.

Anyway, I'll let you lot carry on with pointlessly murdering each other. One thing, though: I reckon murdering Dariush would be more pointless than other murders. Pretty much all cases against him can be explained by him being either a hypercompetent, convoluted-plan-using Cult Leader, or by him being a town moron.
Apply Occam's Razor, won't you?

[Jack A T]

Ah.

Now that you understand the accusation, what do you make of it?

I'd prefer it if you responded to what I listed as faults with Urist_McArathos, since even though Dariush and I seem to be in agreement about him, my list is clearer and more detailed.

Dariush's argument looks far, far less stupid with the Too Townie phrase removed.  Still feels rather weak, though.  I'll address that argument in my response to your attacks on Urist.

Your argument against Urist that you've linked to... I had to read Urist's past games for a bit of context.  Urist seems to explain things in excessive detail normally, whether town or scum, as far as I can tell, so I find that part of the attack to be weak.  However, I do see unusual caution and calmness from him this game (with the exception of recent posts, which I will get to after this).  He's usually far less nice when attacking.  This, however, doesn't bring him above Dariush in my scumpicks.

In any case, Urist is scum for the same reasons as yesterday.

Which are what, again?

Allow me to answer that.  He's accused me of being "Too Town" (and now he's trying to weasel out of that by saying "Oh, I didn't mean that in the way that makes me look scummy, sorry it took me nearly a fucking week to clarify that, I certainly wasn't scrambling for a way to avoid looking scummy in my response").  In that same post he accused me of voting NUKE for no reason (my response here proves that's just flat-out not true).  He also accused me of jumping on the NUKE bandwagon despite having LESS of a case against NUKE than me, and has accused me of avoiding the arguments in the game and lurking by sitting back and watching.  First off, not true (I've been arguing with three different people AND answering Jack and Toaster's questions all damn Day 1), and second it's mighty hypocritical coming from someone who's been prodded by the GM and had several players ask him where the fuck he's been all game long.  Someone's lurking here, but it's not me.  It's almost like he's determined to lynch me, no matter how terrible his case is or how I respond to his baseless and patently false accusations.

Unvote.

Thank you, Urist, for giving us the post I was looking for.  Thank you, Urist, for making my opinion of you that much more solid.  Thank you, Urist, for leaping in to answer a question for Dariush, in a desperate attempt to make him look scummy to Jim.  Thank you, Urist.  This is a move of desperation: you don't want to be lynched.  This is a move of courage: with multiple players already voting Dariush, you feel no need to be cautious, scum.  This, plus the whole "unvote to sort things out without asking questions or anything" thing, combined, make you look scummier than Dariush, especially when Dariush's general ignorance is taken into consideration.

NUKE: If Toaster was somehow suddenly cleared completely, who would your top suspect be and why?

[Think0028]

Votecount:
Urist_McArathos [3]: Jim Groovester, Dariush, Jack A T
Toaster [1]: NUKE9.13
Dariush [2]: Toaster, Urist_McArathos
Not Voting: Powder Miner, NativeForeigner
Day ends in 21 hours!

[Dariush]

Urist, it's kinda interesting that in your 'lurking accusation' quotelist you only mention accusations made by others, none of them your own. For the whole game you didn't even mention my lurking, and only now, when suddenly you need to see me lynched, you mention points made by others.

Dariush: Jack is voting you for reasons that are far-less fleshed out than Urist's. He's also accusing you of lurking.

Well, he isn't voting me anymore, but whatever. Not much I can do about lurking, since I'm not doing it anyway, dammit, and the only times I was absent for more than 24 hours was in the RVS and in the weekend, and that still netted me a prod.

Why aren't you getting on him about that?

We know for a fact that Jack isn't the cult leader, and lynching mere cultists (assuming he even is one) with leader still alive is dumb.

Also, I haven't seen you build much of a case against Urist.

Waitwaitwait. Haven't you noticed all accusations I racked up against Urist over the two days? Yes, they're assorted and far-spread, but they're there.

Or say ANYTHING in your defense. Why is that?

Urist's whole vote on me bases on my supposed lurking that he ignored for the whole game and weak case on him. (but well, why would anyone admit that the case against him is strong?...) Material for both is shamelessly parroted from other people.

[Toaster]

Jim:  D1 I thought he was a bit active-lurky to start out, hence me prodding him for only answering questions.  He backed off Dariush awfully quickly as well.  From then on, he seems to be arguing his points and backing them up.

Actually, his meta kind of reminds me of yours.  Plenty of words, a touch defensive, except without as much bile.

In summary, started off on the wrong foot but has improved since.  Is he defensive?  Yes.  Is he overdefensive?  I don't think so.  Not very scummy.

I'm not voting him because I'm voting Dariush, who probably converted Nuke last night.

[NUKE9.13]

I'm not voting him because I'm voting Dariush, who probably converted Nuke last night.

Counterpoint: Dariush hates me. Even if he was the cult leader, I think he would ignore statistics and not convert me purely out of spite.

[Toaster]

Counter-counter-point:  I know he loves raging at Jim, yet he converted him in Para19 (original edition).

[Urist_McArathos]

Dariush: Shamelessly parroted?  I've been pushing the case against you since day 1!  You're the cult leader, and I've been determined to prove it, and you're accusing me of just parroting??  Who, pray tell?  Because aside from the lurking remarks, everyone else is content to go "Oh, that's just Dariush as usual, absent minded and scummy".  Your case against me has been half assed, full of holes, and you haven't bothered to even TRY and clear it up.  The best thing to happen to your efforts to mislynch me was my attack on your shitty case.  You seriously call that scumhunting?  It's a joke of an effort, even for you.  I can't believe you're not dead already.

NUKE: Wow, defending Dariush pretty aggressively, aren't we?  Care to share the reason behind your crusade to protect Dariush, especially when he doesn't even have the majority of votes?

[NativeForeigner]

Also, I haven't seen you build much of a case against Urist.

Waitwaitwait. Haven't you noticed all accusations I racked up against Urist over the two days? Yes, they're assorted and far-spread, but they're there.

Could you link me to the most recent? I probably missed it over that period where my internet died on me.

Jim: Doesn't that seem a bit pushy, Jim?

Urist has been actually backing up his arguments lately and trying to make a point. Whereas Dariush has only been referring to yesterday's case and pretty much saying "Yup, he's scum". In my opinion, neither case is very strong. I honestly don't think either one of them is the leader right now.

Nuke: Why is it you jumped in to defend Dariush?

[Jack A T]

NUKE All I'm saying is either get some actual dirt on Toaster or at least don't tunnel. Your argument of "I blocked Toaster and didn't get converted!" has so many holes in it that it might as well not be there. For all we know you're either lying and were converted, right, or the leader had no interesting in converting you N1.

You know, thinking about it now, I don't really care what you think.
Because I can just keep blocking Toaster until there's just me, jack, and toaster left, whereupon town wins by default.

Anyway, I'll let you lot carry on with pointlessly murdering each other. One thing, though: I reckon murdering Dariush would be more pointless than other murders. Pretty much all cases against him can be explained by him being either a hypercompetent, convoluted-plan-using Cult Leader, or by him being a town moron.
Apply Occam's Razor, won't you?

I was thinking about this post at school, and...well...I don't like this.

NUKE: Are you completely sure that Toaster is cult leader?  If not 100% sure, why aren't you helping hunt?  If you are 100% sure, how is Dariush somehow less suspicious than any other player who has a 0% chance of being cult to you?

I'm not voting him because I'm voting Dariush, who probably converted Nuke last night.

Counterpoint: Dariush hates me. Even if he was the cult leader, I think he would ignore statistics and not convert me purely out of spite.

So you admit that your Toaster lynch has serious flaws, and you say that Dariush is the sort of person who would not convert you.  How the fuck is Dariush less likely to be cult leader than any other player, then, based on your logic against Toaster!?!

Extend.

[NUKE9.13]

WHY YOU DEFENDING DARIUSH, NUKE?

Woah, what. I'm not defending Dariush. Why would I defend Dariush. I'm just saying, the arguments against him are stupid. I am sure that Toaster is scum, but that doesn't mean I can't point out that your mislynching-cases are flawed.

[Jack A T]

Answer my questions, NUKE.  Because there's more to them than "WHY YOU DEFENDING DARIUSH, NUKE?"