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[Urist_McArathos]

EBWODP: Whoops.  Didn't adjust the display size on that pic correctly.  If I could, I'd edit my post to spoiler it.  Sorry.

[Toaster]

Nuke:  Let me hit the whole assumption argument by quoting your response to Jim:

It seems, therefore, reasonable to assume that the Cult Leader would be fairly interested in working towards victory, and hence fairly interested in things like, the most basic of the games mechanics (what roles there are), and why people are mislynching each other (including misquotations for comedic effect).

You can assume that.  It's a reasonable assumption when applied to someone reasonable- a trait I'm hard pressed to apply to Dariush this game.

Oh, toaster. I'm getting deja vu! Lets hope you don't get NK'd by your own subjects this game. That would be disappointing, also impossible.

Hah.

Let's just wrap up the whole response to you simply- you attack me for active lurking then attack me for attacking?  Now you can attack me for blowing you off.


Urist:  It's fine if you're not certain, but I don't see you trying to get certain.  Perhaps you should do that?

[Urist_McArathos]

NUKE addressed the things in particular I had asked him.  I'm not sure I buy it, but it's not the sort of response I can call B.S. on either.  There's shit-tons of stuff he's hashing out with you, Jim, Jack, Native...pretty much everyone else.  I'm watching those conversations while keeping an eye on other possible targets.

Specifically, Dariush and Max.  I'm waiting for Max to make a post tonight, since he seems to be active late (relative to me); as for Dariush, I want to hear some responses to the points I made earlier.  If I don't hear from them in a timely manner, it'll be time to move on.

[NUKE9.13]

Right well I hope we've all had a wonderful weekend.

Jim: I'm not saying scum magically gain a dozen levels, nor am I saying that town magically lose them. I'm saying that a scum player is more likely to pay the slightest bit of attention, which Dariush is clearly not. What can I say, I'm an optimist, and assign even Dariush the barest bit of competence necessary to read the first post.
But this discussion gets us nowhere. I would like to focus on the far more interesting:

TOASTER: I'm going to laugh at you some more. Hahahaha.
Yes, Toaster. I am attacking you for attacking. And now I am going to attack you for blowing me off. Observe!
-I pose that you were active lurking. You were acting passively, with little in the way of content. This strategy can be used by the Cult Leader to avoid attention, and I say that its deliberate use is therefore evidence of cultleaderitude.
-I call you out on this. Instead of explaining why you were acting passive, or denying it, or whatever, you call my attack stupid because it relies on an assumption, and say that defending people isn't scummy, completely ignoring the main accusation of activelurkering.
-I point out that you haven't actually responded to my accusation, which you ignore. However, you do seem to shift up a few gears qua aggression. Inexplicably.
-I call you out on this. You ignore/'blow off' this point as well.

Can you deny any of these points? Can you explain away any of these points? Can you ignore these points and maybe go on about something basically irrelevant?

[Toaster]

Nuke:  I could tell you that I'm generally not a good D1 player and it takes me a while to get my suspicions going most of the time (especially in a game like this,) but what would be the point?  You're just going to call it crap.  Dariush got more aggression because he got more scummy.

I deny that my questions were not relevant/not doing anything, therefore I deny the active lurking charge.  I do not deny that I could have been doing fiercer hunting, but with no strong suspicions (see above) there wasn't much for it except to go back to my default questioning stance.

I don't have any irrelevance for you at this time- sorry about that.

[Jim Groovester]

Blegh, slow weekend.

TOASTER: I'm going to laugh at you some more. Hahahaha.
Yes, Toaster. I am attacking you for attacking. And now I am going to attack you for blowing me off. Observe!

So no matter what Toaster does, he can't catch a break?

And you place the burden of proof on him to deny your arguments, which is just an excuse on your part to keep your vote on him since he'll never satisfy you. Why are you pushing arguments so weak that you have to resort to forcing Toaster to deny them? I'm starting to change my opinion that you might possibly be town.

McArathos, for somebody who said he wasn't worried about my vote, you sure have a lot to say about it when asked. Been thinking about it a lot?

I don't have an issue with your arguments, about NUKE9.13 being inconsistent and such, I have issue that you also argued that a mislynch would have been justified.

[Jack A T]

I invite you to read over Toaster's posts and look for anything resembling a serious opinion, attack, or contribution to the game. I, at least, could not find any.

I have decided to take NUKE up on his invitation.

Checking out Toaster's posts up to the point where NUKE voted Toaster, I didn't have to look far to find Toaster giving a serious opinion on something.

On Nuke:  I'm pretty sure he's town, and the cases on him are misguided.  Go read back over Roguelike 3 and Witches' Coven on the days he got lynched- he's playing much the same as he did then.

Apparently, these days, announcing that you think that the attacks on someone are poor, and that that person is probably town, and giving reasons why, is not a serious opinion on or contribution to the game.

And yes, NUKE, I know that one of the reasons you voted Toaster was because he defended people.  But you also stated that Toaster never showed any serious opinions.  This, even as a defense of you, is a serious opinion, right?

Dariush, Max: Get in here and answer questions already.

[Urist_McArathos]

McArathos, for somebody who said he wasn't worried about my vote, you sure have a lot to say about it when asked. Been thinking about it a lot?

If there is one thing I've learned so far, it is that EVERY post should be well thought out.  Misinterpretation is lethal in this game.  Besides, you're not confirmed town, so its worth considering this is a scum attack.  Doubtful, to me anyway, but possible.

I don't have an issue with your arguments, about NUKE9.13 being inconsistent and such, I have issue that you also argued that a mislynch would have been justified.

Not so much justified as that I have the least issue mislynching a scummy, hard to read player, especially so early on as opposed to at LYLO.

Of course, I still want to hear from Max (here) and Dariush (here). 

Oh, Dariush?  Looks like there's a lot of responding with the quoted post broken up into easy-to-read segments, each addressed in turn.  Clearly, we have like 6 scum in this game!  Either that or your point about me being scummy for it was a crock of shit.  My money's on the latter.

FYI for everyone, I am out of state all week.  Every post is a PFP, so bear with me.

[NUKE9.13]

Nuke:  I could tell you ... but what would be the point?  You're just going to call it crap.

Thank you for that.
Now then.
Its not crap. They are all fairly decent explanations. All fairly simple. Easy to put to paper.
Why couldn't you have posted them, say, when I attacked you in the first place?

Why are you pushing arguments so weak that you have to resort to forcing Toaster to deny them?

Because he should've denied them already. He should have rebutted them in the replies he gave to them, instead of dancing around the issue.
Basically, I'm not putting the burden of proof on toaster- I'm making a separate issue out of the fact that he hadn't already responded.
Will his explanations ever satisfy me? Realistically, probably not. Never completely. But they would/have satisfied me a lot more than no explanations (or shitty explanations)- I am now willing to consider the possibility that maybe toaster is not scum.

Apparently, these days, announcing that you think that the attacks on someone are poor, and that that person is probably town, and giving reasons why, is not a serious opinion on or contribution to the game.

:[
Oh captain my captain.
You are correct. It isn't a serious opinion, or contribution.

[Urist_McArathos]

NUKE: I think Jim's point about your assumption of competency certainly should take us somewhere.  If you are optimistic and wrong, then you overlook a potential target.  Surely, if you're town, you can see why this is VERY bad for town.  Right now, the only person beyond suspicion is Jack.  I think a town player should see the folly in making such an assumption, particularly one who stressed the need for detailed reads Day 1.  Care to explain this inconsistency?

Apparently, these days, announcing that you think that the attacks on someone are poor, and that that person is probably town, and giving reasons why, is not a serious opinion on or contribution to the game.

:[
Oh captain my captain.
You are correct. It isn't a serious opinion, or contribution.

Wait, what?  Could you expound on your assessment here?

[Toaster]

Nuke:

Nuke:  I could tell you ... but what would be the point?  You're just going to call it crap.

Thank you for that.
Now then.
Its not crap. They are all fairly decent explanations. All fairly simple. Easy to put to paper.
Why couldn't you have posted them, say, when I attacked you in the first place?

A combination of me not thinking it'd do any good to say and oversight.


Max, Dariush, and Native have all exceeded 48 hours since their last post.  Yes, some of that time is weekend, but I think it's beyond time they weighed in again.


Jack:  Has your opinion of Nuke changed?  I'd also be interested in hearing your other suspicions.

[Think0028]

Max and Dariush have been prodded. If Max gets another prod, he will be up for replacement. Native posted within the weekend, and as such will not be prodded.

[NativeForeigner]

Well don't I feel special?

I had a long day today with classes, so I don't think I'll be posting anything helpful today. I only have one class tomorrow, so I'll be more active then.

[Max White]

Ok, I'm here. Once again, sorry. An unreasonable amount of work and social activities has very suddenly piled up, but it will go away sooner or later. You guys know I like to be active, I'm just tied up right now. Give me a sec to read over the thread.

[NUKE9.13]

Yeah, I'm not gonna be here again before the deadline tommorow.

Oh good.

Well, I didn't want to do this. But as none of my voters seem particularly inclined to listen to reason, and I hardly see the majority shifting to someone else by tomorrow,

I am the jailer.