Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Max White]

You asked if I would bus or not, short answer: I don't know, it depends on a shit load of details that I am not going to speculate on. I do not have these details, and pushing for them is not going to achieve much. That is what I have been saying so far, try to keep up.
Also, you didn't asked about the cult leader. You must remember that people can't read your mind.

I forgot how bad at logical analysis you are...

[NativeForeigner]

And I forgot how horrendously pig-headed you are and how you can never seem to grasp simple concepts. You did, after all, commit suicide and then vengekilled me for fitting into my town meta.

Here's what I asked. Go back and actually read it this time if you don't believe me.

While I wait for Powder Miner...

Max: Let's hope this game goes better than the last game we played together. Assume you're a day three convertee and you've been building a decent case against someone you're sure is cult, either the leader or just a member. After you get converted, you discover you were right. Do you stick with your guns and keep pushing for the lynch and bus the player, or do you drop your case? If the latter, how do you think you would handle that without being too obvious? What if the person you were building a case against turned out to be the leader?

Hm, funny that. It says leader right there. You didn't even have to read my mind.

Additionally, you seemed to have enough details to give me an answer. Now suddenly you don't? If you can't speculate on something as simple as "to bus or not to bus" on even the smallest of scales (i.e. I would in a case like this, I wouldn't in a case like this), then you shouldn't be playing Mafia.

I also remember how you start throwing out petty insults when you start losing. Each insult is like a little checkpoint that lets me know I'm pushing the right buttons.

[Max White]

Let's hope, yes.
See the problem with these hypothetical questions is that I don't have enough details to go off, I am change my stance or continue on the attack depending on any number of things that have gone on from there. Still, if you want a more solid answer, I would change my stance, as every day somebody new gets converted, so I could just say somebody who wasn't scummy yesterday is asking scummy today.

I said from the start that I didn't have enough details to go off. That is what I have been trying to tell you, but you refuse to listen.

Also, sorry, forgot about the leader part, but yea, same answer, I don't know.

Also, also, If you feel insulted, then harden up.

[Urist_McArathos]

Alrighty, home from work at last.

First, answering questions...

Jim: What traits do you think the cult leader would want in earlier converts?

The ability to lead suspicion away from him and towards others. In other words, skill.

Why would there be any difference between what the cult leader would want earlier in the game versus later in the game?

I dunno, I have never played against a cult before.  Just picking the brain of a more experienced player.  On that note, how experienced are you against cults anyway?  I've defaulted to you as my experienced choice because of your recent bout of ICing the various BM games, but I now realize that doesn't mean you know every variant of Mafia inside and out either.

Urist:  I see.  How will the enemy being a cult make a difference in this case?

Well, I won't have the luxury of NKs narrowing down my suspects, so I imagine it will make things harder.  I feel that, in some ways, every game day is a start from scratch.  Everyone will have to be watched for changes in behavior, and it's pretty much a given that every day we have a new scum to handle.  I'm going to do my best to watch for likely conversion targets to help me focus my investigation, but I imagine it will be a BIG learning experience for me.

NUKE9.13: In the last couple games I've seen you, including the aforementioned Witches' Coven, you've been mislynched for your playstyle.  You set off an awful lot of alarm bells despite being town because of it.  How do you intend to handle this ongoing meta here?

I intend to completely revert my playstyle to the expected norm, posing as the perfect unreadable everyman.

Okay...I sense a bit of sarcasm in this, but it might just be because I know you hate the RVS stage...oh, wait, there's more.

Speaking of which, herpaderp random questions.
(somewhat insulting idea of RVS)

...you know, I tried to ask you a discussion worthy question since I knew you hated RVS.  Pretty much everyone is asking questions pertaining to strategy and gameplay, to get the discussion going and keep it related to the game.  Anyone that drags out RVS or asks RVS questions after it is clearly over looks scummy; the point of RVS is solely to get the game started, nothing more.  I don't understand your arbitrary hatred when you haven't posed a better way to get the game going than a random vote and attached question to prod them into talking.

By the way...

...We will probably not find the cult leader...

Nice defeatist attitude there; play to win, NUKE, and there's no telling how fast we'll have this wrapped up.  Or sit and pout in the corner with your little "RVS Sucks" banner; the big kids are gonna be busy in the meanwhile.  Unvote.

Do you think there is a time when it would be wise for the jailer to claim?  If so, when?  If not, why?

I really doubt there would be a jailer when scum is cult, but assuming there is one, I think he shouldn't claim at all and instead try to discover scum basing on sudden shift in somebody's behavior towards looking for a jailer.

As has already been pointed out, there is definitely a jailer.  You've answered my question though, so whatever. 

Urist, do you think the scum has any extra roles? If yes, which?

I don't think so; the OP said that there would be a cult leader, jailer, and confirmed townie.  This doesn't leave any room for additional cultists, ergo no additional roles.  There might be hidden roles (SK or the like) which, I guess, could BECOME scum roles if they are converted, but I don't think that's what you were asking me about anyway.

...did you not pay much attention to the first post, Dariush?  This is the second thing that appears to be clearly handled in the game summary.

[NativeForeigner]

But you still managed to give a hypothetical scenario (the beauty of hypotheticals is that you just need guidelines, not a lot of details). However, when pressed to explain your scenario (one or two examples of what would make you go the other way) you locked up, refusing to say anything on the matter other than complaining about how you don't have details. Make your own, that's what I'm asking you to do. Make your own details to a scenario that would make you take the other option. You said there were several. Why can't you conceptualize one?

Okay, same question to that: What do you think you would do to keep it from being obvious?

To be insulted, there has to be some grain of truth to the insult.

[Jack A T]

Powder Miner, you refuse to play along with the RVS shenanigans. This is because your are the cult leader, attempting to avoid attention.

During a reread, this stood out to me.  NUKE9.13, this seems strangely hasty: you're convinced that Powder Miner is the cult leader because of one post near the start of RVS where he didn't ask any questions.  You can argue that it could be scummy, but I find it to be extremely unconvincing evidence of being the cult leader.  You don't bother asking him a question, either, instead just leaving a weak accusation that can be shrugged off with a short counterargument.

Also, a couple questions: If you suspected one person rather strongly of being the cult leader, but there was a lurker lurking, who would you vote for?  How about if you suspected the former of just being an ordinary cultist?

Oh wow, I'm totally lurking for partaking in such horrible activities as sleep and school.

Powder Miner I don't think anyone accused you of lurking.  What NUKE accused you of, I believe, was not asking a random question and thus being cult leader.  I think that accusation is rather poor, as I've stated earlier in this post, but still, is there a reason why you addressed accusations never made instead of an accusation that was?

I also remember how you start throwing out petty insults when you start losing. Each insult is like a little checkpoint that lets me know I'm pushing the right buttons.

NativeForeigner, I feel that I must remind you of that Vengeful 8 game you mentioned earlier in the post I am now quoting.  To be exact, I must remind you of how townie Max White was insulting you quite often during the argument you mentioned.  I'd be careful using Max White insulting you angrily as a scumtell, as it fits well within his town meta.

What do you intend to get out of getting Max White angry?

[Max White]

But you still managed to give a hypothetical scenario (the beauty of hypotheticals is that you just need guidelines, not a lot of details). However, when pressed to explain your scenario (one or two examples of what would make you go the other way) you locked up, refusing to say anything on the matter other than complaining about how you don't have details. Make your own, that's what I'm asking you to do. Make your own details to a scenario that would make you take the other option. You said there were several. Why can't you conceptualize one?

Okay, same question to that: What do you think you would do to keep it from being obvious?

To be insulted, there has to be some grain of truth to the insult.

If you want any kind of real answer other than, I don't know, then you need some detail. And no, I just couldn't give you more details than what I have, and that is none, so let me make this clear.

I DO NOT KNOW. Clearly I would like to be able to lynch a townie in the given hypothetical, but I do not have enough details to tell you how I wouldn't make it obvious. The only example I could think of where this would be reasonable would be if somebody suddenly turned scummy, but there isn't any more details to that either.

Also, if there is a grain of truth, does that mean you really are incompetent?

[Think0028]

Vote Count:
Powder Miner [2]: NativeForeigner, NUKE9.13
Max White [3]: Powder Miner, Jim Groovester, Dariush
Urist_McArathos [1]: Toaster
Not Voting: Urist_McArathos, Max White, Jack A T

The day ends Friday, 6:00 PM Pacific, 8:00 PM forum time, and 1:00 AM Saturday according to this clock.

Remember, if you have any questions, ask me directly with my name or Mod in bold.

[Jim Groovester]

I dunno, I have never played against a cult before.  Just picking the brain of a more experienced player.  On that note, how experienced are you against cults anyway?  I've defaulted to you as my experienced choice because of your recent bout of ICing the various BM games, but I now realize that doesn't mean you know every variant of Mafia inside and out either.

Lies.

I'm infallible. Don't let anything give you the impression to the contrary.

I don't have a lot of experience with cults or dealing with cults. I'm a little out of my element for this gametype, even though it seems like I've been dealing with them quite a bit lately.

I said from the start that I didn't have enough details to go off. That is what I have been trying to tell you, but you refuse to listen.

I don't know why you're refusing to answer when it's clearly a question you could. Not having details isn't a good excuse. Supply some of your own until you can answer. This isn't hard.

I don't understand why you are so adamantly against it. What is it? Don't want to go on record for something you might have to do later in the game?

Unvote Max White and NUKE9.13 because hardy har RVS is dumb Powder Miner is scum for not doing it.

[Max White]

Once again, I would swap targets and lynch townie if I thought I could get away with it. That was the initial question that I have an answer to, but he also asked how I would make it look real, and to that, I have no idea.
I have answered what I can.

[NativeForeigner]

I also remember how you start throwing out petty insults when you start losing. Each insult is like a little checkpoint that lets me know I'm pushing the right buttons.

NativeForeigner, I feel that I must remind you of that Vengeful 8 game you mentioned earlier in the post I am now quoting.  To be exact, I must remind you of how townie Max White was insulting you quite often during the argument you mentioned.  I'd be careful using Max White insulting you angrily as a scumtell, as it fits well within his town meta.

What do you intend to get out of getting Max White angry?

This is true, part of the reason why I haven't voted for him yet.

When people get angry, they slip up more easily. I didn't intend to get Max angry, but he managed to bring it upon himself quite quickly, so I figured I would take advantage of it. And since he can't kill himself and vengekill me in a fit of rage this time, we might actually get somewhere.

Unvote

NUKE: Something about you doesn't sit right with me. It may have been your "playful" claim of being the cult leader, or the unnecessary nonsense questioning of yourself, I'm not sure. But I have a sneaking suspicion that you may be trying to play the "I'm-totally-the-leader,-so-I'll-just-"playfully"-admit-it-in-the-thread-as-a-joke-to-draw-immediate-suspicion-away-from-me" card.

Max: Seriously. If you can't synthesize your own details for one of the supposedly many scenarios the would cause you to change your mind, stop playing Mafia. You obviously don't have the mental capacity to handle hypothetical questions.

Did I say I was insulted?

[Max White]

If you want me to just fabricate a hypothetical for you, then suddenly Townie Jim went insane, said he was the cult leader and I swap votes to him for it, but if you want something more realistic then your out of luck, as I can't see the future.

[Jim Groovester]

Once again, I would swap targets and lynch townie if I thought I could get away with it. That was the initial question that I have an answer to, but he also asked how I would make it look real, and to that, I have no idea.
I have answered what I can.

So, what, you have no idea how'd you draw back your suspicions, or argue that the town player is scummier, or how you changed your mind, or whatever else you'd have to do if you wanted to force through a mislynch?

Man, it's like I told you how to answer the question inside the question itself.

Unvote

NUKE

Not that I disagree with you, but this seems sudden. One moment you're giving Max White no amount of shit and then suddenly you're cool with it.

[Jack A T]

Unvote

NUKE

Not that I disagree with you, but this seems sudden. One moment you're giving Max White no amount of shit and then suddenly you're cool with it.

Native has never voted for Max.  He was voting for Powder at the time of the unvote.

[Max White]

So, what, you have no idea how'd you draw back your suspicions, or argue that the town player is scummier, or how you changed your mind, or whatever else you'd have to do if you wanted to force through a mislynch?

Man, it's like I told you how to answer the question inside the question itself.

But how I draw suspicion away from one target to another depends entirely on how the game has gone up to that point. There is no one single omni-method for changing your target, or everybody would know about it and it would no longer work, so there is no answer, all one can do is see how things go and play along with it to your advantage.