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[Virex]

...parents shouldn't be able to forcibly make their children do things on pain of potentially ruining the rest of their life by causing them to flunk out of High School.

It only ruins their life if they refuse the test, so what is so horrible about a drug test that they would refuse? Unless they were on drugs, I see little reason that they would.

"Guilty until proven innocent"?

[Fenrir]

Perhaps because of the principal of the thing? I know I certainly wouldn't take kindly to being pulled out of class to pee in a cup.

Even if the mandate that students should be pulled out of class to pee in a cup helps discover children that are struggling with drugs?

[Virex]

If you're struggling with drugs, the last thing you need is the school grounding you or taking other disciplinary measures...


Edit: Wait, I seem to have gotten two stories conflated. Holding my reservations until I know what happens on a positive result.

[quinnr]

Perhaps because of the principal of the thing? I know I certainly wouldn't take kindly to being pulled out of class to pee in a cup.

Even if the mandate that students should be pulled out of class to pee in a cup helps discover children that are struggling with drugs?

How is it the school's business who does drugs and who doesn't? Sure, they may be funded by government money, but that doesn't automatically make them into police. They should contact the proper authorities if they suspect someone of drug usage. Randomly picking people out of a hat is just an annoyance and not their job.

[Montague]

You know you have to pee in a cup as a requirement to hold any sort of employment, and so are sobriety tests as a condition of driving a car, so why would it be wrong as a condition for attending high school?

Attendance at a public school is a privilege, not a right, much like employment or anything else, so in principle there is nothing that unusual about somebody asking you to pee in a cup as part of the deal.

[Strife26]

Deal with it. Life ain't fair. Act like a semi-responsible adult, taking a bloody piss test isn't a big deal by any stretch of the mind.


There's why parents need to be able to make choices for minors, because kids will raise hell over a non-deal otherwise. Much easier for the school to be able to have the paper and force the kid into it.


Schools have a natural job to handle drug use amongst students, that's why most US high schools employ counselors and the like. Fair bit easier and better for the kid than locking them up for awhile. Moreover, claiming that drug use doesn't affect the learning environment is pretty silly.

[Fenrir]

How is it the school's business who does drugs and who doesn't?

It is a public institution. It has whatever authority it is given by the state, and I think it a good thing. You want to talk about “under pain of potentially ruining the rest of someone’s life”? Drugs will do that worse than flunking out of school.

[ed boy]

Hmm, the age of consent is typically 16 years old in most states. So yeah, teenagers can have sex with whomever but not make even basic choices effecting their lives, without their parents approval?

I wouldn't call the things that 16 year olds are not allowed to do 'basic'. There might be a few that are debateable, but most of them (e.g. voting, joining the army) are not minor.

Perhaps because of the principal of the thing? I know I certainly wouldn't take kindly to being pulled out of class to pee in a cup.

What exactly is the principle of the thing? I can't quite tell whether it is the fact that someone can have the authority to pressure you to have a drug test, or whether it is the fact that the school has the authority.

[quinnr]

You know you have to pee in a cup as a requirement to hold any sort of employment, and so are sobriety tests as a condition of driving a car, so why would it be wrong as a condition for attending high school?

Attendance at a public school is a privilege, not a right, much like employment or anything else, so in principle there is nothing that unusual about somebody asking you to pee in a cup as part of the deal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I'm legally required to attend school, unless my parents register me as being homeschooling. Otherwise you get in trouble for truancy.

And I realize that, but that's something that you decide to do yourself, under your own power. This is not, this is being forced to do something.

As to the above posts, sure it may alter the individual's ability to learn, but it's not going to effect an entire class more than kids with bad attitudes, ect. do.


The tests are a waste of money and time, and an invasion of privacy, to boot. There's no reasonable doubt to test random students, most of whom are not guilty of anything.

[Leafsnail]

Would the school even kick you out if you came up positive?  The only relevant source on this thread says that it's to identify and treat drug users rather than just kick them out (certainly it's hardly grounds for suspending/ expulsion).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Deal with it. Life ain't fair. Act like a semi-responsible adult, taking a bloody piss test isn't a big deal by any stretch of the mind.

Deal with it. Life ain't fair. Act like a semi-responsible adult, reporting traitors to the Great Leader isn't a big deal by any stretch of the mind.

How is it the school's business who does drugs and who doesn't?

It is a public institution. It has whatever authority it is given by the state, and I think it a good thing. You want to talk about “under pain of potentially ruining the rest of someone’s life”? Drugs will do that worse than flunking out of school.

I know people at my school who practically live stoned 24/7 without it causing them to flunk out of anything. That's not even touching the huge number of them that smoke tobacco or drink alcohol, which are only prohibited to them because of age limitations.

The horrible nightmare of "Drugs" (Brought to you by the people who invented the capital-T "Terrorists"), as much as the state-sponsored PSAs would like you not to believe, have widely varying effects that may or may not cripple your social life.

And frankly, even if their PSAs were true, it still wouldn't be a justification. Recreational drug use is a personal decision, with benefits and consequences tacked on to whomever decides to engage in it. That's on their head, not the state's. The state needs to learn some personal boundaries and back the fuck off.

Oh, and by the way, the vast majority of students use substances illegally. I hope you can sleep at night knowing that these policies are pointed at somewhere between 40-95% of the students in the country, and that if they get caught by it they'll likely be condemned to poverty for the rest of their lives.

[UltraValican]

You know you have to pee in a cup as a requirement to hold any sort of employment, and so are sobriety tests as a condition of driving a car, so why would it be wrong as a condition for attending high school?

Attendance at a public school is a privilege, not a right, much like employment or anything else, so in principle there is nothing that unusual about somebody asking you to pee in a cup as part of the deal.

Its the law in the U.S. Thats like saying"if you don't like it here we can always throw you and you parents in jail"
Call me a marxist, but if you want to hold a job you have the right to get a job, regarless of your personal life. Every one has the right to the pursuit of happiness, how the hell can I be happy if I live in a dumpster?

[quinnr]

Would the school even kick you out if you came up positive?  The only relevant source on this thread says that it's to identify and treat drug users rather than just kick them out (certainly it's hardly grounds for suspending/ expulsion).

From the book, you get suspended for 3 days for possessing any drug paraphernalia, and 10 days and police referral for for possessing any drugs. That's on campus, though..."The school will take all necessary action to protect the rights and well-being of the overall student body." is all it says for out of school, although the one on their website is from last year, and they added a clause about how they can punish students for anything that happens out of school that affects their learning.

9 days out of school in a year equals full credit loss for a semester.

[Bauglir]

Recreational drug use is a personal decision, with benefits and consequences tacked on to whomever decides to engage in it. That's on their head, not the state's. The state needs to learn some personal boundaries and back the fuck off.

Gah, while I agree with the sentiment, I feel a need to qualify this. The problem is that while beginning drug use is a personal decision, continuing it isn't. I'm of the opinion that government-funded rehab would be a good thing for dealing with it, and I'm sure it could be paid for with all the money that isn't subsidizing prisons and is no longer paying for court time to deal with drug offenders if drug use was decriminalized, but I would also want government regulation of the supply sufficient to ensure that legal drug use is an informed decision. Since the state would be footing the bill for a later change of heart in this scenario, it'd be fair to tax purchases significantly, but pretty much everything would ultimately be legal; it's just using without a permit that wouldn't be.

Perhaps I dream of too enlightened a government to actually exist, having such power and not abusing it, but eh. It'd be nice.

[Gunner-Chan]

In this topic, Quinnr complains that his parents might make him pee in a cup and Metalslime keeps acting as anti-establishment as he can for no reason.

Really, as an actual parent I can say this isn't for the school, this is for parents awareness that things might be going on that they don't know about. No one wants to think their kids are doing anything like this usually, and I don't even just mean weed. I'm on the side that cannabis is fairly harmless but this would still catch other issues before they become a problem hopefully. Hell people are right in this topic too, want a job? You'll take a drug test, likely out of your own pocket at that.

If I got this would I make my daughter take the test? No. In this case because I know she's honest with me and knows she can be. Is this a bad idea? Hell no. It comes down to the parents final decision anyway, no one is being forced beyond any boundrys that shouldn't be overstepped. At that the program seems to be stepping the RIGHT way in our policy's for one in that it's aiming to treat and not imprison from the sources I can find.

And as a former addict to painkillers, yeah sorry. Being on the wrong things can and will fuck up your social life.