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[quinnr]

So, was going through the school policies and such today, and apparently the school can punish students who refuse to take a drug test..it's 'voluntary' testing, but you are required to sign a consent form to join any activities. I have no large problem with that alone. Here's the catch though: even if you aren't in any activities, all parents were sent a copy of said form, which they can sign for their children, requiring them to take random drug tests or be punished by the school (I think it's assumed that everyone will mindlessly follow this policy...there's no repercussions listed in the policies for refusing to take the test..)

Anyways, I find it a bit ridiculous that my parents can fill out a form to allow the school to do this. If I'm understanding this straight, it looks like my parents can sign a paper that would forcibly require me to have a urine/blood sample taken (not sure which, never had to do one), or else possibly lose all high school credit (assuming they would suspend you..the only thing I can think of that they really can do; each day you are absent is tallied up, after..8 days you lose all credit for the semester, even if it's due to suspensions).

I understand that minors have a great deal fewer basic rights than adults do, however, this is...just a little bit crazy, in my opinion. Teenagers are capable of making logical choices, despite what the common public seems to believe, it's ridiculous that someone else can sign away some of the few rights I may have, despite who they may be.

[Levi]

I find it kind of weird that a student would need to take a drug test at all.  Its not like you are going to be operating heavy machinery. 

I'm guessing this is in the US?  They are a little crazy about that War on Drugs stuff over there.

[kaijyuu]

Didn't you know? You're property until you turn 18.

[Syreniac]

I believe that has been ruled that random drugs testing by schools is legal (Source)

It's not even whether it is legal or not; to a school, refusing to take a drugs test if asked would be taken as a sign of guilt.

[quinnr]

I believe that has been ruled that random drugs testing by schools is legal (Source)

It's not even whether it is legal or not; to a school, refusing to take a drugs test if asked would be taken as a sign of guilt.

I haven't seen anything that was random testing of any students, however, only this case about extracurricular activities.

[ed boy]

Teenagers are capable of making logical choices, despite what the common public seems to believe

They may be capable of making logical choices, but surprisingly few actually do so.

As for your parents ability to give the school permissions, you have to remember that they have the ability to do such things themselves. Think of it as parenting by proxy of the school.

Finally, concerning the school's ability to do this: Stop worring. Just because the school has the permission to do such a thing does not mean that they will. They have likely included it in the paperwork just in case they are in the unfortunate situation where such a thing would be necessary. The only reason why you should find this a bad thing is if you believe yourself to be a better judge of when drug tests are necessary than the collective school administration.

It's not even whether it is legal or not; to a school, refusing to take a drugs test if asked would be taken as a sign of guilt.

Do you mean formally or informally? Informally, I could easily believe you, but formally I could not. They would likely treat you as if guilty, to cover their bases, but I would be very shocked to see them formally taking that as a sign of guilt.

[Leafsnail]

What right exactly is being infringed here?  This isn't a sarcastic question, I just don't know.

[kaijyuu]

Teenagers are capable of making logical choices, despite what the common public seems to believe

They may be capable of making logical choices, but surprisingly few actually do so.

Exact same thing could be said of adults.

Kids are not stupid. Inexperienced, probably, but not stupid. Least no more than you or I.


Re: Drug test. If it's for like, sports or something I don't see the issue. Steroids are a problem in high school sports, occasionally.

[Syreniac]

It's not even whether it is legal or not; to a school, refusing to take a drugs test if asked would be taken as a sign of guilt.

Do you mean formally or informally? Informally, I could easily believe you, but formally I could not. They would likely treat you as if guilty, to cover their bases, but I would be very shocked to see them formally taking that as a sign of guilt.

Of course it would be informal guilt, but how big a problem that would be depends on the school. In my old school, the suspicion of taking illegal drugs would lead to compulsory random drugs tests with either failure or refusal resulting in punishment, but I am no expert on this issue.

[quinnr]

Teenagers are capable of making logical choices, despite what the common public seems to believe

They may be capable of making logical choices, but surprisingly few actually do so.

As for your parents ability to give the school permissions, you have to remember that they have the ability to do such things themselves. Think of it as parenting by proxy of the school.

Finally, concerning the school's ability to do this: Stop worrying. Just because the school has the permission to do such a thing does not mean that they will. They have likely included it in the paperwork just in case they are in the unfortunate situation where such a thing would be necessary. The only reason why you should find this a bad thing is if you believe yourself to be a better judge of when drug tests are necessary than the collective school administration.

I'm 90% sure they plan on actually doing it, we spent about 45 minutes to an hour taken out of the last period of the day after an evac. drill where the announcements went over all changes to the policies (which was quite nice, I'm glad that they're open about it instead of hiding stuff like that), and that was one of the things. I don't have an issue at all with the extra-curricula requiring this consent..the Supreme Court set a precedent that that's legal, so okay.

What I don't agree with is that parents have the legal ability to do nearly whatever the heck they feel like. If parents can force their kids to take drug tests, should they be able to force medical care on a teenager who does not want it? Or forcibly send them to a psychiatrist? Or something like in this story?

Teenagers are capable of making logical choices, despite what the common public seems to believe

They may be capable of making logical choices, but surprisingly few actually do so.

Exact same thing could be said of adults.

Kids are not stupid. Inexperienced, probably, but not stupid. Least no more than you or I.


Re: Drug test. If it's for like, sports or something I don't see the issue. Steroids are a problem in high school sports, occasionally.

It was originally for sports only, last year. Now it's for all extra-curricula, such as chess club, whatever, and anyone who's parents sign a paper that was mailed out to everyone.

[ed boy]

It was originally for sports only, last year. Now it's for all extra-curricula, such as chess club, whatever, and anyone who's parents sign a paper that was mailed out to everyone.

The fact that it's included for so many people is likely because it's a lot, lot simpler that way for everyone involved. Not only do they not have to prepare different paperwork, some involving drug tests some not, for each activity, but if someone who isn't involved in something that requires drug tests then decides to get involved in something that does, they don't have to go through the paperwork process beforehand.

[quinnr]

It was originally for sports only, last year. Now it's for all extra-curricula, such as chess club, whatever, and anyone who's parents sign a paper that was mailed out to everyone.

The fact that it's included for so many people is likely because it's a lot, lot simpler that way for everyone involved. Not only do they not have to prepare different paperwork, some involving drug tests some not, for each activity, but if someone who isn't involved in something that requires drug tests then decides to get involved in something that does, they don't have to go through the paperwork process beforehand.

While that may be true, it's just a single extra form for a few select activities. I think having to file that form for everyone in anything would be more of a pain.
And this is more about the second part, in my opinion, how even if I don't want to do any extra-curricula I can be forced by other people to give them my urine. 

[Fenrir]

What I don't agree with is that parents have the legal ability to do nearly whatever the heck they feel like. If parents can force their kids to take drug tests, should they be able to force medical care on a teenager who does not want it? Or forcibly send them to a psychiatrist? Or something like in this story?

Parents can not do “whatever they feel like”. Abusing children is still illegal.

Children and “teens” have not spent very much time living. As such, it can be expected that they are not yet very good at it. You may be the exception—you just might be a perfect little child genius, but, unfortunately, it is difficult and inefficient for school administration to investigate the mental resources of every student to see which can govern themselves. The same is true for the state. General rules are the only solution.

[quinnr]

What I don't agree with is that parents have the legal ability to do nearly whatever the heck they feel like. If parents can force their kids to take drug tests, should they be able to force medical care on a teenager who does not want it? Or forcibly send them to a psychiatrist? Or something like in this story?

Parents can not do “whatever they feel like”. Abusing children is still illegal.

Children and “teens” have not spent very much time living. As such, it can be expected that they are not yet very good at it. You may be the exception—you just might be a perfect little child genius, but, unfortunately, it is difficult and inefficient for school administration to investigate the mental resources of every student to see which can govern themselves. The same is true for the state. General rules are the only solution.

That's why there was a 'nearly' right before that.

And I'm not saying that everyone should be investigated to see who's smarter than who. I just don't see how forcing someone else to do something when said person is completely capable (even the stupidest people in the school still know what a drug test is) of having informed consent themselves is silly. If you want to require everyone to take drug tests, whatever. If you're going to say it's 'voluntary', though, it should actually be voluntary.

[Fenrir]

What I don't agree with is that parents have the legal ability to do nearly whatever the heck they feel like. If parents can force their kids to take drug tests, should they be able to force medical care on a teenager who does not want it? Or forcibly send them to a psychiatrist? Or something like in this story?

Parents can not do “whatever they feel like”. Abusing children is still illegal.

Children and “teens” have not spent very much time living. As such, it can be expected that they are not yet very good at it. You may be the exception—you just might be a perfect little child genius, but, unfortunately, it is difficult and inefficient for school administration to investigate the mental resources of every student to see which can govern themselves. The same is true for the state. General rules are the only solution.

That's why there was a 'nearly' right before that.

So why did you offer a link to a clearly-illegal incident of a child being abused at a Utah facility?

I just don't see how forcing someone else to do something when said person is completely capable (even the stupidest people in the school still know what a drug test is) of having informed consent themselves is silly.

The drug test is for the purpose of catching drug users. Yes, they may be very well know what a drug test is, but it does not mean that they will take one if they happen to be using drugs. Assuming that anyone will voluntarily assist in capturing themselves is silly.

If you want to require everyone to take drug tests, whatever. If you're going to say it's 'voluntary', though, it should actually be voluntary.

You have not been objecting to a mislabeled test—the majority of your distaste has been about the fact that your parents have the right to make you take it.