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[Dariush]

You know what, OB?

Fuck you.

You are nitpicking at other people's choice of words, 'suddenly' start seeing reasons for their votes for you, use absolutely ridiculous analogies to prove your point and absolutely outrageously dodge questions ('I don't tend to notice things until I notice them.'? Seriously?).

Jack, no, I'm not crying. I'd guess that the crying one was Zrk, assuming he was telling the truth about the whole 'escape' thing.

[Vector]

You're seriously telling me that you'd take "you're misreacting" as a summary?  Any person with a seed of intellect would immediately say "misreacting how?" to which I would have to say, as usual, RTFM for an idea.  That's a very... external description, but it isn't a summary.  But since TFM says mostly "you feel off in these sorts of ways," yes, I cannot put into precise words exactly all the ways that you feel bad to me.

Bandwagoning is hopping on a vote chain without new argument on the person in question.  Since my argument was the newest of all, I could not have bandwagoned.  It isn't just about the order in which people vote; otherwise you couldn't get more than three votes on anyone without going "Ooh!  Ooh!  Bandwagoning!  Bandwagoning!"

I have said multiple times that it wasn't just about pressure.  You apparently can't understand the idea of "there are other votes than lynching votes and pressure votes."

Come back when you can stop twisting my words >:I  That isn't a good lesson to learn from our mod.

[Orangebottle]

You know what, OB?

Fuck you.

You are nitpicking at other people's choice of words, 'suddenly' start seeing reasons for their votes for you,

And you've still failed to provide a defense. Maybe you should do that.
Unless you're trying to admit that I'm right.

use absolutely ridiculous analogies to prove your point

Where did I do this?

and absolutely outrageously dodge questions ('I don't tend to notice things until I notice them.'? Seriously?).

Taken out of context, yes, that's an outrageous dodge.
In context it answers your question.

And why do you bring all this up only now? You didn't address me in the whole one and a half days of the game, let alone attack or vote me. What changed now?

I don't tend to notice things until I notice them.

[NUKE9.13]

Well well well well.

Isn't this something.

Orangebottle, I gotta say. Your arguments are full of holes, and those against you, not so much. Is it so bad as that I might vote for you?
Hmm. Perhaps it is. More on that later.

But more importantly, a point that I feel you are getting insufficient flak for: Your insistence (and it is insistence) that we stop flavourhunting. You claim it didn't work in WC until we got investigation results.

WRONG. I bid you consider: Me VS Think, D2. Think's flavour stunk. I called him out on this. I got lynched for my troubles.
Everyone voting for me, trying to stop people from using flavour as a scumhunting tool?

Scum.

And Think? I was totally right about him. He was Scum, and he was lying about his flavour.

So, other things aside, Orange, I question your motives re: no more flavour hunting!

And whilst I hate to agree with Dariush, your insistence that the Scum's flavour has no holes, despite having no reasonable town evidence therefore, sounds like something scum with flavour full of holes would say to get people to ignore the gaping holes in their flavour.

Yeah. On reflection, there is no town explanation for that sort of behaviour. You are the scum.

Orangebottle

[Orangebottle]

But more importantly, a point that I feel you are getting insufficient flak for: Your insistence (and it is insistence) that we stop flavourhunting. You claim it didn't work in WC until we got investigation results.

WRONG. I bid you consider: Me VS Think, D2. Think's flavour stunk. I called him out on this. I got lynched for my troubles.
Everyone voting for me, trying to stop people from using flavour as a scumhunting tool?

Scum.

How is that evidence of it working?

And Think? I was totally right about him. He was Scum, and he was lying about his flavour.

So, other things aside, Orange, I question your motives re: no more flavour hunting!

Oh. That's how.
Read my posts? I've already rethought it.

For the record: if you find something to flavor hunt that you think will lead you to a liar, then go ahead and follow it. In the meantime, I expect you to be scumhunting.

And whilst I hate to agree with Dariush, your insistence that the Scum's flavour has no holes, despite having no reasonable town evidence therefore, sounds like something scum with flavour full of holes would say to get people to ignore the gaping holes in their flavour.

What is this?
Seriously, I have no idea. It makes no sense to me at all.
If it sounds like something scum with flavor full of holes would say to get people to ignore it, point me to the holes, NUKE. I have given forth my flavor.
I've been playing really, really poorly recently. I need to stop seeing things where they aren't.

I guess what I was really trying to say with,"STOP FLAVOR HUNTING!!!1!!" was that WC was won with both scum and flavor hunting, and that we were doing too much of one without enough of the other.

And no, I am not the scum. I just look like it.

I'm going to go look things over a bit and try to pull this quickly sinking ship together.
And find an actual case.
In the meantime, Unvote

[Urist_McArathos]

Bolded words mine.

Summary: I'm wrong and admitting to it and looking scummy, and am hoping this convinces everyone I'm an apologetic townie rather than scum.

In the meantime, Unvote while I look for a better mislynch target.

This convinces me of nothing; telling me you look like scum, while acting like scum and pushing a case that's full of holes only reinforces my opinion of you as deserving of a lynch.

I also don't like this right here:

No, it's a "something feels off about you and I'm going to keep voting and arguing with you until I know why" vote.  It's not quite pressure, and it's not quite lynching.  It's saying, in bright red letters: "Look!  Over here!  Can anyone else see this and put it into words?"  Well, at the same time as it's saying "All right, you smell bad and I'm dissecting you."

First you summarize your case in a line, then you say you can't put it into words and your vote's just there to put a bit of pressure on me. This is a contradiction. Which is it, Vector? And why are you making stuff up?

This is called investigation, otherwise known as scumhunting.  It's an accepted, valid tactic since, you know, the entire point of the game is to fucking HUNT SCUM.

Unless you're scum, in which case the point is to sabotage scumhunting so you survive to win, while trying to not look like scum.  But you wouldn't know about that would you Orangebottle?

And no, I am not the scum. I just look like it.

I'm going to go look things over a bit and try to pull this quickly sinking ship together.
And find an actual case.

Try harder.  Or don't; I'd prefer we kill a scum player quickly.

[Vector]

Mod, prod Akigagak.  Now :I

[Jack A T]

For one, there's your reaction to Dariush's attack.

I'm not going to let you guys sit there while the scum is laughing their asses off in their own little corner because their flavor claim has no flaws.

Tsk-tsk-tsk... Ruining one and a half days of unnoticed blending into the background by one epic scumslip? How typically Orangebottley.

Also questioning me my top pick after my reasons for voting Nuke (thus pretty much ignoring D1) shows that you merely care about showing activity instead of actually scumhunting.

This, somehow, is nothing to defend yourself from?  This is especially odd because you defended yourself from these accusations in your previous post.  And these aren't vote reasons?  They might not be great reasons, or complete reasons, but accusing him of not giving reasons is still completely and utterly false.

...How did I even-
What th-
Argh!
Anyway, I don't know how I didn't see that he was actually giving me reasons. It doesn't change the fact that they're ridiculous.

I find it hard to believe that you didn't see that he gave reasons.  You defended yourself from his attacks in the post where you said he had given no reasons.  Hard to say you missed them.

And no, I am not the scum. I just look like it.

Somehow, this doesn't convince me of much.

[Vector]

We're waiting, Orangebottle.

[Orangebottle]

I'm trying.
It's a lot of work to fix a game that you've tried to play with entirely the wrong mindset.

[Toaster]

I guess what I was really trying to say with,"STOP FLAVOR HUNTING!!!1!!" was that WC was won with both scum and flavor hunting, and that we were doing too much of one without enough of the other.

Then you should have said that in the first place.  Now you just look like you're trying to cover a slip.  (Hint- you are)

And no, I am not the scum. I just look like it.

This is not a convincing argument.

I'm going to go look things over a bit and try to pull this quickly sinking ship together.
And find an actual case.
In the meantime, Unvote

In other words, you admit your case on Dariush was crap and spur-of-the-moment, which was one of my original accusations.

Yeah, scum.

I'm trying.
It's a lot of work to fix a game that you've tried to play with entirely the wrong mindset.

The "pretending to hunt scum" mindset?

[Orangebottle]

I guess what I was really trying to say with,"STOP FLAVOR HUNTING!!!1!!" was that WC was won with both scum and flavor hunting, and that we were doing too much of one without enough of the other.

Then you should have said that in the first place.  Now you just look like you're trying to cover a slip.  (Hint- you are)

Yes. Because I haven't been playing right and I want to mend that before I get a meta of being shit.

In other words, you admit your case on Dariush was crap and spur-of-the-moment, which was one of my original accusations.

Yeah, scum.

Sure, making a case off of his voting reasons was pretty shitty. I still want to know why he was using those reasons, though.

The "pretending to hunt scum" mindset?

No, the "oh god they're going to lynch me I'm town what the fuck one of them has to be scum scrounge up ALL the things" mindset. I should've been using the "I'm town, I don't have to worry about being lynched because there are worse things than that." mindset.

[Orangebottle]

Before I get started, I'm going to preface this huge wall with this:
This post contains my answers with the corrected mindset.
Yes, I am aware this is massive backpedaling. No, I don't care.
Arathos:

What if it's more complex than that?  Why aren't you curious to figure out that little mystery, like what powers and abilities his role REALLY had, or why he was so eager to be lynched if he was town?

I'd like to reopen this discussion. It was wrong of me to dismiss this as rolefishing.
After a bit of thinking, I may have found Zrk2's actual wincon.
First, there's that one line.
"I 'just want the pain to end'. That's verbatim."
Then, look at what Talos Gravesong said when he was lynched:
"Not like this! I didn't want it to end like this!"
What other ways are there to die in this game?
You can either be lynched, or you can be killed.
I'm thinking. his wincon was him getting NK'd.

Vector:

If you have trouble with this line of questioning, why didn't you bring it up at first?

Because I didn't have trouble with it at first. Then I started seeing things that weren't there.

Why are you writing so choppily,

I guess I was pretty worried. I'm not exactly sure why, but it probably comes from the other game I'm playing.

and how are you missing the fact that Arathos is asking you about your strange degree of certainty?

I don't find my certainty very strange at all. Maybe because it's my reasoning, but I don't see anything strange about it.

Besides, what are you being distracted from, exactly?  Thumb-twiddling?

Okay, you caught me on my bluff. I'm not the only one doing nothing, though.

Why would neither vanilla townie nor scum know anything of it?

If I had seen the above in the day end text earlier, I would've facepalmed at this point. There's no reason we can't try to logically piece together a dead person's role or wincon, but there's no way for us to be 100% sure until the end of the game.

That's probably why my certainty is strange.

So, you're saying that your flavor information told you nothing at all about anyone else?

Funny, that.

Er, no. My flavor gave me plenty of information on you, and even said that I should consider you town.

Toaster:

This bugs me.  Why do you think he was a townie?  All we know is that he's not a jester- he didn't flip any sort of a wincon or alignment.

See my revised answer to Arathos, above.

Also, do you explicitly know your wincon? 

What I said about this before still applies; My flavor says I'm inclined to help the town in whatever way I can. I'm going to assume that means I'm a townie and the regular win condition of no third parties or scum being alive at the end still applies.

This post reads "Okay, got your questions, now let's talk about someone that's not me now!"  Why don't you want to talk about your own actions?

I'd love to talk about my own actions. At the time I was beginning to throw up a big cloud of bullshit; and yes, there's no reason for me to do that. What the fuck, brain?

Why would a scum have a vague role PM like that?

Because it's a semi-bastard mod?  Why are you answering questions with WIFOM?

Oops. Yeah, actual reasoning for that above.

That's great and all, but asking several people their top pick is bottom-grade scumhunting, used when you don't actually have any opinions of your own... which I'm thinking is the case.  Right now you're voting Urist for "ignoring you" and an accusation of rolefishing that, as far as I can tell, is a complete invention on your part.  So really, what's your case on him?  Who else do you suspect and why?

The question was meant to cause people to do more scumhunting and it damn well served it's purpose. You're all on the wrong target, but you're still scumhunting.  My case on arathos at that time is an utter heap of bullcrap, and my newest, serious cases are at the bottom of this post.
Jack A T

You done fucked up.(paraphrasing)

What the fuck, brain!?!
I didn't miss it, I didn't forget it, I have no idea why I said it.

Dariush:

Are you blind, stupid or simply haven't been here on D1?

None of those; NUKE defended himself against your reasoning and you never brought it back up.

I'd still like to know what you were doing here. It doesn't look like scum or flavor hunting.

NUKE:This. Dariush was right about it; it was an OMGUS and you overreacted. You have a right to be mad, but you shouldn't be "Fuck you and anyone related to you, die in a fire." mad. It also sounds like one of my more recent posts. "Dariush is plotting! He has a plot to look town!"

3. You voted Zrk immediatly after his Jester claim and abandoned whatever (shreds of) scumhunting you were doing previously. That implies you're simply looking for a way to get through the day with an easy target and aren't really worried about finding scum.

3. You assume that I stop scumhunting the instant I find a lynch target. This assumption is wrong.

Except that's exactly what you did; After you voted Zrk2, you made two posts. One was advice to Zrk2 about how to best get himself lynched, the other was this defense. I don't see any scumhunting in them.

Nuke AND Dariush: That's only a scumslip if I actually have huge holes in my flavor.

[Urist_McArathos]

Before I get started, I'm going to preface this huge wall with this:
This post contains my answers with the corrected mindset.
Yes, I am aware this is massive backpedaling. No, I don't care.

Well, at least you're honest.

Arathos:

What if it's more complex than that?  Why aren't you curious to figure out that little mystery, like what powers and abilities his role REALLY had, or why he was so eager to be lynched if he was town?

I'd like to reopen this discussion. It was wrong of me to dismiss this as rolefishing.
After a bit of thinking, I may have found Zrk2's actual wincon.
First, there's that one line.
"I 'just want the pain to end'. That's verbatim."
Then, look at what Talos Gravesong said when he was lynched:
"Not like this! I didn't want it to end like this!"
What other ways are there to die in this game?
You can either be lynched, or you can be killed.
I'm thinking. his wincon was him getting NK'd.

See?  Was that so hard?  I had completely missed this in my investigation of you.  So, what kind of role wins by being NK'd?

I like this post; it's well thought out, and gives me a new perspective on some things.  You're still the scummiest person to me for the moment, so no unvote until I find a better target.  Admitting to things like pushing a case made of bullshit and bluffing to Vector may be honest, but it doesn't prove you're not scum appealing to our sense of mercy. 

[Vector]

Nah, unvote.  Gut started giving me a townie read a little while ago, and this cinches it.

Thanks for the post, Orangebottle.

Now... Akigagak, I have it on good authority that you're scum.  Prepare to die.