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[Vector]

You can go back and read my argument, the one you summarily dismissed.  I also agree with the allegations of others against you.  I don't have the time to spoonfeed.  Xanatos was probably a newb, but that does not keep his behavior from being scummy.  It may just have been newb-scummy, but he didn't exactly post enough content to make that anything like clear.

Why not summarize my argument, in return to your allegation of bandwagoning?  Because you can go back and read the fucking thread yourself, rather than making me jump through hoops I don't have the time or inclination to fuck with.

I'm extra pissed because I don't need any more shit today.  I'm currently locked in the depths of three separate closets, and all three of them are playing on my nerves at the moment.  Oh, and I was rejected by both friends and love interest.  So there you go.

[Max White]

Dariush[1]: Orangebottle
NUKE9.13[0]:
Toaster[0]:
Orangebottle[3]: Toaster, Dariush, Vector
Urist_McArathos[0]:
Vector[0]:
Jack A T[0]:
NativeForeigner[0]:
Akigagak[0]:
Xanatos Jr[3]: Xanatos Jr,  Jack A T, Urist_McArathos,


Not voting: Akigagak, NUKE9.13, NativeForeigner


The will end on Wednesday the 19th

Sorry for the neglect over the past few days guys. I have been either at work and unable to post here, or my home internet has been giving me real problems.

Note:
Just to be clear, you are not in a medieval setting, but rather an alternate reality that most closely resembles early 17th century, as such fashion involved big wigs, gun powder was never invented, and post men exist.

Also, Ockham's razor was named after William of Ockham, so calling it ockham's razor rather than occam's razor is like spelling colour with a 'u'. It is what people outside of the USA do.

[Orangebottle]

You can go back and read my argument, the one you summarily dismissed.  I also agree with the allegations of others against you.  I don't have the time to spoonfeed.  Xanatos was probably a newb, but that does not keep his behavior from being scummy.  It may just have been newb-scummy, but he didn't exactly post enough content to make that anything like clear.

How did you come to the conclusion that he was newbscum?

Why not summarize my argument, in return to your allegation of bandwagoning?  Because you can go back and read the fucking thread yourself, rather than making me jump through hoops I don't have the time or inclination to fuck with.

Or you could stop being Dariush and give me something to actually defend myself from instead of forcing me to go through all of your posts. I'm starting to think you don't have a case of your own.

I'm extra pissed because I don't need any more shit today.  I'm currently locked in the depths of three separate closets, and all three of them are playing on my nerves at the moment.  Oh, and I was rejected by both friends and love interest.  So there you go.

You shouldn't be playing Mafia like this. Ever.
Drink some tea, get some sleep, get a massage, read a good book, watch TV, do something other than mafia. You need to relax, and Mafia isn't going to help you do that.
In other news: Max has gone off the deep end. Apparently nobody's voting for me or dariush and there's a tie between Nuke and Xanatos.

[Vector]

You can go back and read my argument, the one you summarily dismissed.  I also agree with the allegations of others against you.  I don't have the time to spoonfeed.  Xanatos was probably a newb, but that does not keep his behavior from being scummy.  It may just have been newb-scummy, but he didn't exactly post enough content to make that anything like clear.

How did you come to the conclusion that he was newbscum?

Read the fucking manual.

Why not summarize my argument, in return to your allegation of bandwagoning?  Because you can go back and read the fucking thread yourself, rather than making me jump through hoops I don't have the time or inclination to fuck with.

Or you could stop being Dariush and give me something to actually defend myself from instead of forcing me to go through all of your posts. I'm starting to think you don't have a case of your own.

No.  Don't compare me to him, we're not at all similar.

Furthermore, the person who started the argument can't bandwagon.  It's two or three pages back.  How hard is that?

You shouldn't be playing Mafia like this. Ever.
Drink some tea, get some sleep, get a massage, read a good book, watch TV, do something other than mafia. You need to relax, and Mafia isn't going to help you do that.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to decide what conditions I was born under.

[Orangebottle]

You can go back and read my argument, the one you summarily dismissed.  I also agree with the allegations of others against you.  I don't have the time to spoonfeed.  Xanatos was probably a newb, but that does not keep his behavior from being scummy.  It may just have been newb-scummy, but he didn't exactly post enough content to make that anything like clear.

How did you come to the conclusion that he was newbscum?

Read the fucking manual.

'The fucking manual' happens to be insufficient. You say it 'may have been newb-scummy'. Why?

No.  Don't compare me to him, we're not at all similar.

Well, let's see:
-You both voted for me.
-Without summarizing your voting logic.
-You're both pretty mad that I voted for Dariush.
-You're both playing this game.
I'd say you're kinda similar.

Furthermore, the person who started the argument can't bandwagon.  It's two or three pages back.  How hard is that?

Much harder than it is for you to summarize your case, and it also keeps me from missing any part of your case.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to decide what conditions I was born under.

You still need to find some way to relax. Log off for a while and come back when you aren't about to burst at the seams with rage.

[Vector]

Because he was a newb (obvious), who acted scummily (also obvious--what, did you not notice his bandwagoning, "I'm totally town " use of his power, and voting for himself?).


I never said I was angry that you were voting Dariush.  Maybe for the OMGUS, but in his case it pretty much always seems justified.

Also, the chief difference between us is that Dariush came and voted you, taking up the results from a conversation I had already started.


No, it is not easier for me to summarize an argument when it basically involves you overreacting/misreacting over and over again.  Read my last 7 posts with the lurker-tracker and you'll have it.  I'd have to do exactly the same thing, and write a cute little summary on top of it.


I'm not "about to burst at the seams with rage."  Overreaction.

[Orangebottle]

Because he was a newb (obvious), who acted scummily (also obvious--what, did you not notice his bandwagoning, "I'm totally town " use of his power, and voting for himself?).

That doesn't account for the newbiness though. How much scummy shit do newbtowns who have never been in a BM try to pull without realizing that it's scummy? Answer: a lot.

Also, the chief difference between us is that Dariush came and voted you, taking up the results from a conversation I had already started.

So you're saying Dariush is the bandwagoner?

No, it is not easier for me to summarize an argument when it basically involves you overreacting/misreacting over and over again.  Read my last 7 posts with the lurker-tracker and you'll have it.  I'd have to do exactly the same thing, and write a cute little summary on top of it.

So you're saying you don't even know what your case is? That's certainly what the last line implies.

I'm not "about to burst at the seams with rage."  Overreaction.

No. Exaggeration.

[Vector]

You're right about the overreaction/exaggeration thing.  My mistake.

How does that not account for the newbiness?

I'm saying that it's hard to say anyone was bandwagoning in this case, because the argument started at a point when the previous top suspicion was asking for a replacement.  Dariush was certainly the person who voted you with the least reasoning of any sort attached.  As for my case, I don't know what I've said before about you; usually, I don't memorize that stuff.  All I know is that right now, you look like scum and I'm going to keep voting you and combing you until I learn otherwise or want to see you swinging.

[Vector]

Akigagak, you need to contribute more.

[Orangebottle]

How does that not account for the newbiness?

Did you know the ins and outs of everything in the first game you played? What was and wasn't scummy? I sure as hell didn't. I'm still not sure if I understand all of it.

I'm saying that it's hard to say anyone was bandwagoning in this case, because the argument started at a point when the previous top suspicion was asking for a replacement.  Dariush was certainly the person who voted you with the least reasoning of any sort attached.

'Kay.
 

As for my case, I don't know what I've said before about you; usually, I don't memorize that stuff.  All I know is that right now, you look like scum and I'm going to keep voting you and combing you until I learn otherwise or want to see you swinging.

So it's not a lynch vote, but a pressure vote? I've been going at this like it was a lynch vote.

Why do you think I look like scum?

[Vector]

Oh, you're saying that the scummy things might be better attributed to newbiness?

Hm.  So why are you trying so hard to chainsaw Xanatos?  I'm not sure why, precisely, you want to clean his name so badly.


No, it's a "something feels off about you and I'm going to keep voting and arguing with you until I know why" vote.  It's not quite pressure, and it's not quite lynching.  It's saying, in bright red letters: "Look!  Over here!  Can anyone else see this and put it into words?"  Well, at the same time as it's saying "All right, you smell bad and I'm dissecting you."

[Orangebottle]

Oh, you're saying that the scummy things might be better attributed to newbiness?

Exactly.

Hm.  So why are you trying so hard to chainsaw Xanatos?  I'm not sure why, precisely, you want to clean his name so badly.

I don't. You just seemed so sure of his scumminess; I wanted to know how you became so sure because I'm terrible at hunting total scrubs. You were also being pretty vague about it.

He's definitely not being pro-town at all right now, I'll give you that.

No, it's a "something feels off about you and I'm going to keep voting and arguing with you until I know why" vote.  It's not quite pressure, and it's not quite lynching.  It's saying, in bright red letters: "Look!  Over here!  Can anyone else see this and put it into words?"  Well, at the same time as it's saying "All right, you smell bad and I'm dissecting you."

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[Jack A T]

Unvote.  Let's see if Xanatos's replacement is less scummy.

Native:Who's your top scumpick(besides Xanatos, cause he's pretty much gone) and why aren't you hunting them?

Nuke, Jack, Dariush, Akigagak:Same question.

Well, let's see...other than dealing with Dariush's flavour (Dariush: Answer my question.)...you're on the top now, Orangebottle.

For one, there's your reaction to Dariush's attack.

I'm not going to let you guys sit there while the scum is laughing their asses off in their own little corner because their flavor claim has no flaws.

Tsk-tsk-tsk... Ruining one and a half days of unnoticed blending into the background by one epic scumslip? How typically Orangebottley.

Also questioning me my top pick after my reasons for voting Nuke (thus pretty much ignoring D1) shows that you merely care about showing activity instead of actually scumhunting.

This, somehow, is nothing to defend yourself from?  This is especially odd because you defended yourself from these accusations in your previous post.  And these aren't vote reasons?  They might not be great reasons, or complete reasons, but accusing him of not giving reasons is still completely and utterly false.

I also don't like how you flailed out at Vector after she voted you: trying to explain her vote away as reasonless and bandwagoning, while somehow forgetting your argument with her a few posts back, where she had reasons.  I especially love the whole "If you're really not bandwagoning, why didn't you summarize your reasons upon voting?" argument.  Because that summary really changes whether one is bandwagoning or not.  Your attempt to turn Vector's attempt to get you to read the thread into more proof that Vector has no case was also rather stupid.

Also, do you explicitly know your wincon? 

I know my alignment. I'm town. I'm going to assume that the usual conditions for town winning apply.

This question isn't part of my case, but how do you know?  Seeing how Zrk2 was, as far as I can tell, a townie, I'm going to be careful around this sort of stuff.

[Toaster]

Orange:

Orange:  Oh yeah, you're scum.  You've made the same mistake Nuke caught me with way back in Supernatural 1- you went from waffling about to full-bore attack when someone pointed out your hunting was lax.

 
Nearly everybody was waffling about today.

Okay?  First, that doesn't excuse you (or anyone's) waffling.  Second, you're missing the point:  the waffling isn't the big problem, it's the sudden switch right after someone points it out to you.  It was mostly a pressure vote before you did that (and it worked.)

You blow up on Dariush right after he votes you,

Hardly.

Do you dispute that you didn't attack him before you voted him?

[Orangebottle]

you're on the top now, Orangebottle.

How entirely unexpected.

For one, there's your reaction to Dariush's attack.

I'm not going to let you guys sit there while the scum is laughing their asses off in their own little corner because their flavor claim has no flaws.

Tsk-tsk-tsk... Ruining one and a half days of unnoticed blending into the background by one epic scumslip? How typically Orangebottley.

Also questioning me my top pick after my reasons for voting Nuke (thus pretty much ignoring D1) shows that you merely care about showing activity instead of actually scumhunting.

This, somehow, is nothing to defend yourself from?  This is especially odd because you defended yourself from these accusations in your previous post.  And these aren't vote reasons?  They might not be great reasons, or complete reasons, but accusing him of not giving reasons is still completely and utterly false.

...How did I even-
What th-
Argh!
Anyway, I don't know how I didn't see that he was actually giving me reasons. It doesn't change the fact that they're ridiculous.

I also don't like how you flailed out at Vector after she voted you: trying to explain her vote away as reasonless and bandwagoning, while somehow forgetting your argument with her a few posts back, where she had reasons.  I especially love the whole "If you're really not bandwagoning, why didn't you summarize your reasons upon voting?" argument.  Because that summary really changes whether one is bandwagoning or not.  Your attempt to turn Vector's attempt to get you to read the thread into more proof that Vector has no case was also rather stupid.

Look at it this way: if I read back over what she said earlier, I could pull anything she says out of any one of her posts and use that as her case. If she's voting me, she should damn well know what she's voting me for and be able to summarize it. Else it looks entirely baseless.

Okay. It was stupid. Did you read her post where she doesn't really have a case-
Wait. That doesn't look right to me. More on that in a few.

Okay?  First, that doesn't excuse you (or anyone's) waffling.  Second, you're missing the point:  the waffling isn't the big problem, it's the sudden switch right after someone points it out to you.  It was mostly a pressure vote before you did that (and it worked.)

And? You don't immediately get back to work when you're told that you're slacking off and probably going to get fired for it?

You blow up on Dariush right after he votes you,

Hardly.

Do you dispute that you didn't attack him before you voted him?

I dispute your choice of words. I did not 'blow up' on Dariush. That would imply that I overreacted.

Also, do you explicitly know your wincon? 

I know my alignment. I'm town. I'm going to assume that the usual conditions for town winning apply.

This question isn't part of my case, but how do you know?  Seeing how Zrk2 was, as far as I can tell, a townie, I'm going to be careful around this sort of stuff.

Because my PM tells me that I 'feel obliged to help the town in any way I can.'
If that isn't Townie, I don't know what is.
Vector:

Furthermore, the person who started the argument can't bandwagon.  It's two or three pages back.

While you may have started the argument, you were the third vote. You also had the least stated reasons when you voted me, so I can totally say that you're bandwagoning. Especially when you later admit that your case is a myth.

No, it is not easier for me to summarize an argument when it basically involves you overreacting/misreacting over and over again.  Read my last 7 posts with the lurker-tracker and you'll have it.  I'd have to do exactly the same thing, and write a cute little summary on top of it.

No, it's a "something feels off about you and I'm going to keep voting and arguing with you until I know why" vote.  It's not quite pressure, and it's not quite lynching.  It's saying, in bright red letters: "Look!  Over here!  Can anyone else see this and put it into words?"  Well, at the same time as it's saying "All right, you smell bad and I'm dissecting you."

First you summarize your case in a line, then you say you can't put it into words and your vote's just there to put a bit of pressure on me. This is a contradiction. Which is it, Vector? And why are you making stuff up?