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[Askot Bokbondeler]

not to sound sexist or anything, but there was a reason women didn't generally went to war. in medieval times. without effective birth control methods women spent a considerable part of their fertile life either pregnant or breastfeeding, and df is no different. i generally don't recruit women unless they're competent immigrants, but even then, they usually serve just as drill sergeants

not to bash the suggestion, but i don't think it's a priority. it shouldn't come up this often, and the fact that it does speaks lengths about the player base of dwarf fortress

[roflgar]

It's good for the children to die in battle/danger rooms.

it gives the parents the "just doesn't care anymore" attribute

[Agorp Stronden]

In all honesty, women should play a minor, very minor, role in most(gobbos/trolls/beastmen are probably exempt) civs militaries. If we truly are thinking about the children, then we should instead uphold the virtues of motherhood in DF, perhaps mothers may take more time(perhaps all for some Venus mothers, and certainly all to Dwarf babies) off of work to socialize with children in the meeting halls. Personally, for the children, I would like it if children were much more active in the fort, I mean when they get old enough they then should be running all around the fortress causing mischief or adventure. Just why the hell would Dwarf kids not immediately run down into the deepest caverns to play their adventure games? This probably leads to more FUN than the player would like, though maybe that's when mothers come in. Mothers could chaperon children and we all know a good Dwarf mother keeps a spear at the ready to protect the children.

Love your mother and women everyday, damn it!
http://www.paintinghere.com/uploadpic/Sandro%20Botticelli/big/The%20Birth%20of%20Venus.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jPg17dhhTcQ/S7uCl2GHbNI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/QQCKP9x8Txc/s1600/Pallas+Athena.JPG

[G-Flex]

In all honesty, women should play a minor, very minor, role in most(gobbos/trolls/beastmen are probably exempt) civs militaries.

Why? How do you know what sexual dimorphism, or gender roles, are like in fantasy races? You don't. Nobody can answer that except Toady, because none of it's really implemented yet.

I find it rather likely that dwarven women are less differentiated from men than human women are from human men. Also, considering that elves never die of age, I assume they don't have to breed that often, leading to less focus on reproduction/child-rearing and therefore less differentiation in terms of both physiology and social roles.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

we're not talking about dimorphism, or wether women should be less competent, were talking about babies and pregnancies, which would be a constant on every adult female in pre-brth-control methods society

[astaldaran]

I agree that there clearly is sexual dimorphism in DF..I mean the mothers are the ones who carry the babies (presumably because they are fed from the breast)

As for other races.. I agree that they could be different...but I would say it would tend to be women take care of children and men focus elsewhere..why? Simply because women are women because they give birth to children and feed them. Now if other races have eggs or something (and aren't mammals..they don't have nipples) then it could make perfect since for the father to be the one that takes care of them or maybe neither one does.

Specialization though is economical so roles generally do happen- though they don't have to be specific in the species.



I really like the idea of making child rearing take up more time of the parents (especially the mothers since that seems to be the split in dwarvish society as well as ours) and the children getting into mischeif.

But yeah whether there is "adoption" would probably depend on the society...it seems like if there is extended family they should get the baby and maybe you could have an orphanage --even if it is some sort of work house place (oliver twist anyone?) or maybe you can even choose the type of orphanage. This type of thing would be much more important if schooling/education etc were ever implemented

[Askot Bokbondeler]

now, communitarian and mandatory daycare centers could be a feature of dwarven society, the children being raised not by their parents but by the fortresses pedagogues could free up women to join the militia. alternativelly, dwarves could occasionally have a "not interested in romantic relationships" personality trait that could make them less likely to get married and have children, freeing at least some females to become dwarven Valkyries(i did play with a modded in Valkyrie caste at one time)

[Forumite]

It would make more sense for the children to take on the craft of their parents if they are actually taught anything by them. 12 years of walking after the legendary brewer should have taught them a thing or two about making ale.

[Valdrax]

It would make more sense for the children to take on the craft of their parents if they are actually taught anything by them. 12 years of walking after the legendary brewer should have taught them a thing or two about making ale.

Seems like a brilliant place to expand the use of the Teacher & Student skills.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

dwarven schools would be an awesome suggestion. i'm sure there's something like it floating around somewhere in the forum

[Martholomule]

I was just thinking about this, and I think it would be ideal to add two buildings, a Creche and the aforementioned School.  The Creche activity would be *Military activation*->*Drop baby off at Creche*->*proceed with orders* while the School could bring young dwarves into adulthood with Novice in at least one useful skill, maybe more depending on personality modifiers.  Or whatever else was suggested here. 

I think it makes perfect sense, much more so than charging into battle holding a baby.

[Forumite]

Children getting novice in some usefull skills feels better than they emerging as 12 year old politicians.

[G-Flex]

I agree that there clearly is sexual dimorphism in DF..I mean the mothers are the ones who carry the babies (presumably because they are fed from the breast)

Of course there's sexual dimorphism, but I mean dimorphism aside from primary/secondary sexual characteristics. And even then, wet nurses and day cares and similar things exist, or can exist.

As for other races.. I agree that they could be different...but I would say it would tend to be women take care of children and men focus elsewhere..why? Simply because women are women because they give birth to children and feed them. Now if other races have eggs or something (and aren't mammals..they don't have nipples) then it could make perfect since for the father to be the one that takes care of them or maybe neither one does.

I guess that's fair, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all women will have children, or that child-bearing/rearing will be viewed a given way in their society. I see this as being especially true for elves, since, as I said, they're immortal. When you're immortal, either you have a lot of time in between pregnancies, or an absurdly long gestation period, or absurdly high childhood mortality rates. I like to think that elves simply don't breed all that often because they don't need to, seeing as how they live forever and are pretty resistant to illness. This would free up social roles a bit, since much less of a woman's life (or man's life, for that matter) is centered around their children.

we're not talking about dimorphism, or wether women should be less competent, were talking about babies and pregnancies, which would be a constant on every adult female in pre-brth-control methods society

We're talking fantasy races here. For all we know, an elf only ovulates once per seven years, like some kind of weird Vulcan.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i could picture dwarven society somewhat mimicking insect hives, with a small group of highly respected matriarchs holding positions of power, and each of them being mother to a few hundred dwarves, and monastic orders of celibate valkires that chose to serve the fortress in battle. i have more trouble coming up with a sane way of conciliating motherhood with the life of a professional soldier.
but that's beside the point, we're not talking hypothetical fantasy races, we're discussing df's dwarves, and their observable biology makes it impractical for single and married females to be professional soldiers. widows without children are fine, though.

[Naresomez]

Don't dwarves already have a sort of "sexual activity" trait? Those who lack social skills, or are guarded/less open in relationships would be less likely to make friends, and therefore marry.

On the topic of schools, it would be pretty cool to see what kind of things could be done. Such as implementing a strict curriculum to produce more craft oriented dwarves, or to focus more on military skills. Then again, you could have it so the individual chooses what is learned, with preference to a parents' trade. There could also be some kind of apprentice system, where a child could follow around specific High Masters or Legendaries, and learn the skill faster.