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[Psieye]

Yeah, you're thinking of 40d times if you think stone fall traps will do you any good. As for training, live training (on wildlife before you have goblin prisoners) with non-lethal (wooden) weapons really helps. It also helps if you embark with teachers who then do that live training so they can teach what they learnt. Search for "military training analysis" or so to look for my research data on this topic. Danger rooms are an alternative way to train, but not an essential one.

[plynxis]

I believe the quality of the mechanism matters a little, but not a lot, and that fewer discs per trap means lower chances of jamming.

does less discs actually have a significant effect on the clogging? i usually place 10 discs there, for 10 attacks per trap, but although they kill stull 95% of the time, they clog 95% of the time too. so would halving the discs drop that to like 50% or would it be more like 87% or something like that?

[lanceleoghauni]

I don't know for certain, but I have a feeling it's a case of "Disc one checks for jamming, Disc two checks for jamming" repeated until it's out of weapons, and discs jam more than anything else in my experience. you'd do best cutting that down to four, what's the point in 10 when 1 is almost as lethal?

[Broseph Stalin]

I believe the quality of the mechanism matters a little, but not a lot, and that fewer discs per trap means lower chances of jamming.

Mechanism quality has a huge impact, masterwork mechanisms mean traps essentially never miss and I've never actually had a jam using them.

[lanceleoghauni]

  so maybe it's just the lower level mechanisms that don't make much difference.

[Psieye]

It's this: jamming is the result of a corpse being 'stored' in the weapon trap 'building'. For that to happen, an instantly lethal attack must be made by the weapon trap. If they bleed to death 1 tile away, their corpse cannot jam the trap. But a beheading, a brain attack or a torso cleave? That can cause jamming. Mechanism quality affects accuracy as I understand it (though I haven't thoroughly tested that) but 'accuracy' just means whether it hits them or not. What body part gets hit is probably random (with weightings so fingers and toes are less likely in general).

Having fewer discs per trap means there's less chance for a "soon-to-die-because-of-blood-loss" victim to end up getting overkilled and having its corpse get stored in the trap. Traps can't judge whether that armless, legless body doesn't need Disc #7~10 to also apply damage to die, they'll all attack.

[Broseph Stalin]

so maybe it's just the lower level mechanisms that don't make much difference.

I'm not sure about that, it's my understanding that mechanism quality in weapon traps acts similar to skill level would if the weapon was being wielded. I don't think they actually hit harder but the chance to hit is increased.

[ulan]

So I'll need some killing traps too, kk

Captured two gob thieves, and I am wondering what I should do, trying to see if I can tame them atm

When I linked a lever to a trap to release one for training it didn't end well, but he got recaptured
If some nonelf merchants come by imma see if I can sell them into some horrible kind of slavery or whatever the humans would use em for




e: also I captured a badger -- gonna see if I can train it as a war animal and chain it to the mouth of all the cage traps. And mebbe breed em if the opprotunity allows

[Seriyu]

Tamed badgers no longer rage, so be aware. Giant badgers are still good but basic badgers aren't that great.

[_DivideByZero_]

Not if you train them for war.

[Broseph Stalin]

So I'll need some killing traps too, kk

Captured two gob thieves, and I am wondering what I should do, trying to see if I can tame them atm

When I linked a lever to a trap to release one for training it didn't end well, but he got recaptured
If some nonelf merchants come by imma see if I can sell them into some horrible kind of slavery or whatever the humans would use em for




e: also I captured a badger -- gonna see if I can train it as a war animal and chain it to the mouth of all the cage traps. And mebbe breed em if the opprotunity allows

If you take a prisoner to the trade depot they immediately escape. If you want to have fun wit hthem you need a room set up like this

#########
#O##O##O#
#########
#########
#O##O##O#
#########
#########
#O##O##O#
#########

Where # is a floor tile and O is a 9 z deep channel covered by a hatch. Designate the entire room as a pit and your only stockpile for animals. All prisoners will be taken there and you can toss them in to be killed by the animals, traps, or for a real fun time make a few of the channels 10 z deep so they explode on impact. The room has to be a stockpile if you want to use it on animal people because when a dwarf trys to drag a "wild animal" to a location they look back, see a wild animal, and decide to run away allowing it to run amok in your fort.
Where X's are floor tiles and

[Girlinhat]

I believe the quality of the mechanism matters a little, but not a lot, and that fewer discs per trap means lower chances of jamming.

I'm sorry, but I've started to notice that EVERYTHING you say is wrong.

We don't know how mechanism quality matters with stonefall traps, namely because a trap loaded with slade will still cause minor bruising, no one uses them.  For weapon traps, it's extremely well known that the quality of the mechanism has the same effect as the skill level of a dwarf, namely determining the accuracy and the lethality.  A non quality mechanism will cause many attacks to bruise or cut, if it even hits, but a masterwork mechanism will regularly cause severs and head-lops and be extremely lethal in general.

As for jamming, it's generally accepted that 1 disk per trap is the best way to go, assuming you have the spare mechanisms.  That way, if one jams, there's 9 more that can still fire, and you can get the same slashing power over a greater distance.  If space or number of mechanisms is an issue, it's still better to go as loose and spread-out as possible, for the same reason.  And, as stated, it appears to be mostly based on the kill shot.  Hitting an artery and having the goblin bleed to death atop the weapon trap doesn't jam it, but crushing the skull is more likely to jam because that's an insta-kill.  There's also untested evidence that the type of weapon matters, with spears/menacing spikes jamming often and hammers almost never.  It seems that in general, the more "skewer on a stick" the weapon is, the more likely it is to jam.

[plynxis]

great so i've been wasting discs all this time. i'm refitting all my disc traps once i revert back to my normal save. 1 disc, masterwork mechs.

btw, i think spear traps get unjammed if you retract them, so its a good choice - thing is, you either need a dwarf pulling the lever all the time or a repeater.

i thought of making a corridor of them, with a pressure plate at the end, so that the first and bravest troll/goblin would kill the rest of his group by accident

[Girlinhat]

Upright spikes simply don't jam.  When they raise, it appears that any body part/corpse becomes "inventory" and when they lower, it drops on the ground.  This makes them very powerful because they never jam, but you do need some sort of activation, either Lever /R or a repeater.

[plynxis]

tis what i said is it not?

whats more lethal? spikes or spears?

i imagine spikes as pyramidy things, so i'd guess spears are a lot better