Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Eagle of Fire]

Then hit b, C, and select the floor option. Build the whole place as rough stone floor with your prefered stone rock laying around in your fortress from digging.

Not only it should solve the problem, but it's a nice solution when you want to get rid of nearby rocks next to a soil layer. Wall and floor everything which is not already.  

That's what I did to get my dining room to a great level, almost legendary. I did it with obsidian stone blocks, so I guess it raise the room value by a lot. Every single construction in that room add up eventually.  

[Fedor]

quote:Originally posted by Eagle of Fire:
<STRONG>Then hit b, C, and select the floor option. Build the whole place as rough stone floor with your prefered stone rock laying around in your fortress from digging.

Not only it should solve the problem, but it's a nice solution when you want to get rid of nearby rocks next to a soil layer. Wall and floor everything which is not already.   </STRONG>

Have you actually tested this?  It sounds hopeful, sure, but (very incomplete) testing suggested that cleaner dwarves still ignored the area (at least in the case of paving a section of a complete sand/loam layer).  I hope I'm wrong about this...

[Helo]

When I set a dwarf so that his only task is to clean, he just sits around with no job even when there is mud that is both inside and subterranean. Also, on the occasion when the mud does actually go away (I'm in a warm area so perhaps it only rarely cools off enough to do so) the tile turns to sand no matter what it had been previously. This is rather annoying when an engraved dining room floor turns to sand. It did get me wondering as to whether or not the tile somehow registers as sand right when it gets muddied, thus making it impossible to clean (assuming the post about that above is correct).

Edit: Oh, and I believe Eagle of Fire was simply suggesting that you could build a replacement floor over the muddy one, not that building a floor tile over the muddy one would cause a dwarf to clean it.

[ December 05, 2007: Message edited by: Helo ]

[Eagle of Fire]

No, I haven't tested it... Since I never got a mud problem in any of my fortresses yet. I got a lot of trouble from blood from my trainees though, but my dwarves always cleaned it after a little while. Took a long time everytime it happened, but I have a big dwarfpower shortage at the moment because of the numerous goblin sieges... Which must have a lot to do with the fact 70% of the rock I'm digging thru is made of obsidian.  :p

The floor tiles I was refering to are floor tiles my mason made at the entrance of my current fortress.

I suggested this because Fedor said dwarves would not clean soil ground. If you build floor tiles, the problem should be solved... At least for the soil ground your dwarves refuse to clean.

[schm0]

quote:Originally posted by Nil Eyeglazed:
<STRONG>As far as I can tell, dwarves don't clean mud, blood, vomit, or any other contaminant.

They DO clean missile debris.

A screenshot of a dwarf cleaning is not proof that dwarves clean up mud, unless your fort lacks missile debris.</STRONG>

I had no missile debris.   The dwarf pictured above was cleaning mud.

quote:Originally posted by Nil Eyeglazed:
<STRONG>Contaminated squares are each cleaned once a year.  The problem is that this occurs at different times for each square, and mud is tracked in the meantime.  If you could make your dwarves hibernate through the winter, you'd have no trouble with mud (although you might have some trouble with farm irrigation).</STRONG>

This is also not true. The picture above was taken in autumn.

quote:Originally posted by Nil Eyeglazed:
<STRONG>I'm not sure about how outdoors mud is cleaned.  I've never had any outdoor mud.  I don't send my dwarves into murky pools.  I have a grated channel at the entrance of my fort, the entrance to my barracks, and the entrance to my farm.  While I have occasional problems with blood due to goblin thieves dying in high traffic areas, I have no problems with mud.  (I've had problems before.  I don't like uncontrolled mud either.  That's why I didn't even dig my main entrance until I had a grated channel in place.)  I make my dwarves sleep under the stars, so I have no problems with vomit either.</STRONG>

Outdoor mud can not be cleaned, it can only dry. Thus, the only way to be rid of outdoor mud is to lock your dwarves in for the winter.

quote:Originally posted by Fedor:
<STRONG>Try asking them to clean mud off sand or loam grids inside (this may not be possible with your current fort, thus the confusion working here).  Many fortress sites have sand/loam layers immediately under the surface.  In my experience so far, dwarves will not clean these areas.  Doesn't matter if the sand/loam is inside or out, only rock and such ever gets cleaned (needs confirmation).</STRONG>

That's because a rock floor is made of rock and a dirt floor is made of dirt.

There's no such thing as "clean" dirt. I can confirm that.

Dirt tiles turn to mud tiles. Stone tiles turn to muddy tiles.

quote:Originally posted by Eagle of Fire:
<STRONG>Then hit b, C, and select the floor option. Build the whole place as rough stone floor with your prefered stone rock laying around in your fortress from digging.

Not only it should solve the problem, but it's a nice solution when you want to get rid of nearby rocks next to a soil layer. Wall and floor everything which is not already.  

That's what I did to get my dining room to a great level, almost legendary. I did it with obsidian stone blocks, so I guess it raise the room value by a lot. Every single construction in that room add up eventually.   </STRONG>

A temporary fix. What happens when your dwarve's pet cow comes rambling into the room? Reflooring only covers the mud until the mud covers the floor tile again. It doesn't eliminate the mud, but merely covers it.

In the case of indoor mud on an indoor soil tile, this will merely cover the tile temporarily. The mud will still be present underneath. I've also had floor tiles built over mud instantly become muddy as well.

As far as mud tiles turning to dirt once they dry, I've never heard or seen of such a thing I would need some sort of confirmation for that.

[Eagle of Fire]

quote:A temporary fix. What happens when your dwarve's pet cow comes rambling into the room? Reflooring only covers the mud until the mud covers the floor tile again. It doesn't eliminate the mud, but merely covers it.

In the case of indoor mud on an indoor soil tile, this will merely cover the tile temporarily. The mud will still be present underneath. I've also had floor tiles built over mud instantly become muddy as well.

The idea is not to build over the mud, the idea is to turn the tile into an indoor tile so your dwarves clean it...

[MobiusFallen]

My fortress got muddied by a single dropped bucket by the well. The mud is everywhere. Dwarves set to only clean just stand around No Jobin' it up, eating all my mushrooms. I'd love to see this fixed. My dwarves are covered in mud. My dining room is a mess. I'd prefer to have cleaning work since I like the realism of the mud, but I'd take no mud as an acceptable alternative to not being able to do anything about it.

[Durnheist]

I get blood everywhere, but I never get mud.  I have weather on and I outdoor and indoor farm, although I use soil indoors.  I play on a warm map usually.  Dwarfs go outside all the time in the rain, but I still get no mud.  I don't play around with pumps and flooding rooms though.

[Wooty]

I use this set up for every single room in my fort- w is wall, d is door, s is statue, g is grate. If mud gets in a room, I completely isolate the area and move what was there somewhere else until all the mud dies up. This happened once in my meeting hall, I just designated another area as the hall and it was back to normal in three sesions

                          W
                         SW
                         GD
                         SW
                          W

[schm0]

quote:Originally posted by Eagle of Fire:
<STRONG>
The idea is not to build over the mud, the idea is to turn the tile into an indoor tile so your dwarves clean it...</STRONG>

It's still a temporary fix...  

No matter how many dwarves you have cleaning, it only takes one square of mud to turn into twenty. Secondly, there is the problem of pets roaming around and tromping even more mud (on average, in my experience) than dwarves. This happens most frequently with cattle and horses and the like. Thirdly, outdoor mud can still be dragged back into your fortress once again.

Solution:

1) Limit a mud square to producing a limited amount "lightly muddied" or perhaps "soiled" squares instead of more mud. These squares, in turn, will not spread mud at an insane speed and will spread the existing mud realistically. It should also limit the area which "actual" mud can possibly cover. Mud should be like butter... it spreads around, but eventually, you'll need to grab another gob with your knife to spread more.

2) Have the drying of mud linked directly to hot or cold temperatures. An extremely hot climate will dry mud in any season within a week or so. An extremely cold climate should freeze mud within a week. A temperate climate should experience these sorts of temperatures twice a year. A warm climate for about a month of spring and fall, and the entire summer. A cold climate should likewise experience these temperatures one month of spring and fall, and the entire winter. (Does that make sense?)

3) If cleaning is broken in some instances, then it should be fixed.

[Helo]

Here's a little progression, going from my clean, engraved limestone floor to mud and then sand. Turns out what actually happens is plants start to grow, and when those plants die or are removed, I'm left with sand.

[ December 08, 2007: Message edited by: Helo ]

[Fedor]

quote:<STRONG>   Originally posted by Fedor:
   Try asking them to clean mud off sand or loam grids inside (this may not be possible with your current fort, thus the confusion working here). Many fortress sites have sand/loam layers immediately under the surface. In my experience so far, dwarves will not clean these areas. Doesn't matter if the sand/loam is inside or out, only rock and such ever gets cleaned (needs confirmation).

</STRONG>

quote:<STRONG>
Originally posted by schm0:
That's because a rock floor is made of rock and a dirt floor is made of dirt.

There's no such thing as "clean" dirt. I can confirm that.

Dirt tiles turn to mud tiles. Stone tiles turn to muddy tiles.

</STRONG>

If there's any further confusion about what I'm talking about, feel free to ask.

[schm0]

quote:Originally posted by Helo:
<STRONG>Here's a little progression, going from my clean, engraved limestone floor to mud and then sand. Turns out what actually happens is plants start to grow, and when those plants die or are removed, I'm left with sand.
[ December 08, 2007: Message edited by: Helo ]</STRONG>

Looks like a bug to me. The tile looks like a floor, but it's description says that it's sand. Strange, indeed. And yet another reason to fix mud.

quote:Originally posted by Fedor:
<STRONG>
If there's any further confusion about what I'm talking about, feel free to ask.</STRONG>

Of course. Dwarves can't clean dirt, sand, clay or loam. Thus my comment about no such thing as "clean" dirt. The only way to make a tile "cleanable" is to refloor it with a stone surface that can be mopped or whatever method dwarves use to clean. If you have actual mud in your fortress, not a "muddy cave floor", then you will have to place floor tiles over the dirt.

On an aesthetic note, any soil surface I've ever dug into I've refloored with stone. Dwarves are not hobbits, and as a personal preference, I force them to live with the creature comforts they were designed for.  

Dirt inside your fort can be beneficial, and although I haven't implemented them, I have plans for "indoor" outdoor farming. It would consist of underground patches with walled-in open air vents to the sky.

Other than that, I'd recommend to any new or veteran player to pave over any indoor dirt with floor tiles.

[ December 08, 2007: Message edited by: schm0 ]

[Eagle of Fire]

quote:It's still a temporary fix...

Well I give up. At least I tryied...  :p

[Helo]

Ah that tile is actually sand right there. Sorry you can't see it because of the X and it was the first sand tile that appeared so I didn't wait for any others. So unless there is somehow sand on top of the limestone floor, it turned into sand after a plant grew on it.