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[Sappho]

Okay, I've basically volunteered myself as a slave and I have zero takers. I don't want to hear any complaints that people aren't gathering the right resources. If someone wants to tell me where to work, go for it. Otherwise I guess I'll just keep foraging in the forests for berries and fungus.

[andrea]

you arrived too late to be part of my  "be my employee and get a mine free" program.
I have another oil well actually, but I am not  sure I can afford more input

not until somebody buys what I produce

[Flying Dice]

Right now our glorious leader has posted easily 20+ build jobs, a lot of which are roads.

[Neyvn]

Actually alot of which is skyscrapers...
Also Foundries...

[Seriyu]

Might be joining up. How do I get to libya once I'm out of the newbie area? Will I just have a selection? And are there any jobs particularly in need or can I do whatever.

[Flying Dice]

There will be a 'travel' activity that you can select.


For professions, ones that are in demand right now are: Engineer (i.e. operator), Builder, and to a lesser extend miners.

[gimlet]

Dorf spirit really shined today - there was a post that we needed resources, and a ton of volunteers to go get them.  I mentioned lack of operators, and a bunch of operators applied for the jobs I had - JUST enough to really ram through timber iron and steel production in a steady flow.  Lack of demand was frustrating most of the day, but then a little while ago Nanoth came on and added a pile of building jobs so material demand should increase as the jobs get done.  Repeatedly heard in the chat was "what can I do" and "how can we fix this", and I got repeated offers to work without pay or with lowered pay when I had to cut back from lack of cash.

I'm hopeful we'll get a better and better handle on how to keep the economy moving in this game - if we could do that our output will be crushing, and we'll have a serious shot at gaining on the nations who got started a lot before us...

Seriyu: There are opportunities in just about everything, and especially if you pick 2 or 3 professions you like.  And hey, if you really hate one you can even drop it and try a different one.  How to get to Libya - pick the airplane icon that's right under Inventory, and Travel To:"Libya!"

[Seriyu]

Okay! I'll check this out later then. I'll look at getting some in demand jobs too.

EDIT: And by later I mean now!

EDIT2: Is there any point to raising stats, or should I focus on using exp for profession slots?

[Neyvn]

I am trying to set some order to this minefield.
We currently have 2 Forests, One has been handed over to an overseer.
They are (hopefully) searching the forest for trees now that its been fertilized. Later they (hopefully) will be setting up Woodcutting jobs and after the Big sawmill that I set up there is completed, they will also be setting up Work there too.
The second Forest is looking for an overseer, Gimlet has fertilized it, but we still need to put it under someone's control. It is best for a Researcher to monitor the forest as they can search for more trees as it is required.

The Farms are ok to a point. As they come up, please do not buy them if you are a Hobby farmer. Dedicated Farmers should get first dibs on the Farms, and if anything the equipment, but that is not something I will hold to anyone. PLEASE NOTE, I just notified a Researcher that Farming is not a good business to do a "I pay you" route to go through, Farming is much more time intensive then anything else in the game...

Mining, Everyone wants to mine. Stop it. Please. For the leader's sanity, Mine and the next. With the mines being drainned at the alarming rate that it is going at, I the leader have to spend almost all my Day exploring for a refill, that can cost up to 5000$ in just exploring, 5000$ that I haven't been able to earn myself and thus drain from the country funds, which normally goes to research funding. If your running mines and your lining your pockets, increase your wages. I was informed that someone was paying 100$ for harvesting something that gives a net profit of 2000$ from that one tick. This may have been exaggerated but still...

Cities. I am not sure if I will allow any more city plots to be privately owned. I don't know why anyone would want to yet anyway. If pop pays taxes to the plots owners then yes it would make sense, and if that was the case, Cities for everyone. But who knows. We will find out soon.

Researchers. I am pulling down the Small lab researching, we are moving the research jobs to the new building that will be finished when the builders stop complaining about the wages, also. DO NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT YOUR WAGES. It costs me 650$ right now for one of your ticks in research, there is no income from this job. I may raise the wages back up after I find a stable income myself or perhaps if the next leader is willing to take the responsibility.

Builders, please know that I am also buying the materials, you bought the cranes yes, but I bought the materials and am paying you, it won't cost you much for an engineer to repair compaired to how much it costs to build a building from scratch.

Miners. Seriously, If your mining for self profit, go start your own country. This is a community game, self interest will only get you so far, in fact this goes for everyone.

Engineers. Please continue working everywhere. Please know though that Rent will be risen in the future. Your profits are not going to be damaged greatly, but do not expect to be make a mint as fast as you are now. For example, If you make 15 bricks and sell them you get 105$, to compinsate for labour of gathering the rent will only be 25$. Its a 15$ raise on the current rent in my Foundries but please know that it also gets taxed and in the end it all goes to getting more Plots and Research.

Farmers. If you own a plot, please mass something. If your working on another plot with someone, please put some variety in the crops, if I read right, Military won't just eat grain. They need fruit and veg and meat.

Property Owners. Please place rent on your buildings at a 1/4 GM sale of the 1 tick products, please put a 1/2 wage on GM sale of the 1 tick products. Do not go overboard to get workers, you will find yourself going into the red and the workers thoughts of a proper wage become off balance.

Plans for the future.
Become stable, become more systematic with the production lines and finally work for everyone.

[andrea]

Mining, Everyone wants to mine. Stop it. Please. For the leader's sanity, Mine and the next. With the mines being drainned at the alarming rate that it is going at, I the leader have to spend almost all my Day exploring for a refill, that can cost up to 5000$ in just exploring, 5000$ that I haven't been able to earn myself and thus drain from the country funds, which normally goes to research funding. If your running mines and your lining your pockets, increase your wages. I was informed that someone was paying 100$ for harvesting something that gives a net profit of 2000$ from that one tick. This may have been exaggerated but still...

Sorry, but I take issue with this paragraph. I am not sure what is the situation regarding ore, but all the oil and gas mined so far have been converted into plastic and asphalt, which are much needed. nobody has been hoarding and in fact people are importing due to lack of miners. So, new plots are needed when old ones finish fuel. At the moment however the fuel situation is great, no complaints.
second thing, exploring is exactly the kind of thing you should use the treasury for. using the treasury to do a government job which benefits everyone hardly seems a big deal.

Builders, please know that I am also buying the materials, you bought the cranes yes, but I bought the materials and am paying you, it won't cost you much for an engineer to repair compaired to how much it costs to build a building from scratch.

It should be noted that we don't have an engineer which can repair cranes yet.

Property Owners. Please place rent on your buildings at a 1/4 GM sale of the 1 tick products, please put a 1/2 wage on GM sale of the 1 tick products. Do not go overboard to get workers, you will find yourself going into the red and the workers thoughts of a proper wage become off balance.

Seems a nice idea, will do.


edit: also, we are very close to R&D level 9. are you sure you can't put a job with tick limits? it would be nice to hit a new level before stopping

[Neyvn]

Sorry about the Miner thing, just that hearing that two of our most experienced Farmers are giving up most of their work for mines... Gah...

And why can't we hire a lv7 Engie to come in and repair a few from outside?

Also. You put yourself up as a leader for the upcoming election, are you sure you want the job?

[andrea]

gimlet and reelya are mostly going to turn to industry. Gimlets's oil derrick was given to him by me  under a contract to sell me cheap oil. It is not really his industry

yes, we can hire an engineer from outside. But don't fool yourself, it won't be cheap.  not cheap enough to pay with 10$ wages.

It is not a matter of wanting the job.
forsaken quit. Azkul is disliked by some. And I have been proposed as leader. People even voted me.
that is in fact one of the reasons I decided to outsource the mines, so that I could have more free time should I be elected.
will I be an enthusiastic leader? maybe not. But if people are willing to entrust me which such responsibility, I'll still do my best.
It is not like I would be alone either. co-leaders will be appointed.

[gimlet]

OK but in my case, it's not because mining is so wonderful, it's because farming is so bloody brutal.  Hour after hour grind with an order every tick - I could do that for a while but not day after day after day, 10 hours a day (I was doing 20 a couple of days) - that's a job man,worse than a job, and nobody is giving me real money to brutalize myself.  Yeah I know losing that easy cash to the country was irritating, the 2 of us heavy grinding farmers put an *enormous* amount of cash into the economy every day we did that.

I'm irritated I'm getting flak for it - what about the 30+ other players who didn't choose farming and 10+ hour grinding, but the easy 40 tick order, eat, 40 tick order routine that actually allows an outside life?  Why aren't you irritated at them for not doing something they hate and spending 10 hours a day clicking over and over

It was actually fun for the 1st few days, and I continued another couple of days because the money was really helpful to jumpstarting the country.  We were able to afford to quickly buy high-end equipment to make our top farmers, miners, and builders FIVE TIMES more productive each, and we gave out that equipment not because we were ordered to, not even suggested to - reelya thought of it and made the deals and it was such an obvious move that I willingly threw in the maximum funds I could - we buckled down and did it on our own.  That was fine then because it was our choice.  Sorry that I'm not willing to continue to brutalize my body every day so you guys can have a slightly easier time in a GAME.

Now I'm doing something else I find interesting which is operating a part of the production chain, and I think I'm doing it reasonably well and with an overall benefit to the TEAM.

And the fast mining thing is nonsense too - so you're saying our miners should work slower or less efficiently?  Each plot yields the same amount of minerals whether it's mined fast or slow,  fast is better - more minerals sooner, get the job done with the best equipment and minimum use of ticks and free that person's time for other tasks.  Yeah if you can't find new ones fast enough the miners will have to do something else - but how is that a bad thing?  More worker-time available to do whatever needs to be done...

The problem is the game isn't scaled for our level of activity - our eager and active players will scour everything maximally, and even harder when more people get the top end equipment.   There's SOME limit to how much minerals our economy can use,  based on what's being purchased and used from the production chain, the miners will either stop when their output can't be used, or we could try to sell the surplus to other countries - but that has limits too.  I'd first try keeping a REASONABLE level of plot finding, and trusting people to find the work that needs to be done when they can't mine.

Some posts are making our players sound like a bunch of greedy, lazy, selfish, incompetent idiots.  Come on, sure a few might be one or more of those things, but these are mainly DF players, I'd bet on them to make individual decisions more right then not in most games.  And the actions of wanting to do things, wanting to try all kinds of different things and see what works well and what sucks, what's fun and what's not - I think that's closer to OPTIMAL strategy in the early days of learning a game.  Come on, we've been doing this a little more than a week?  We're not in dire straits or defeat, we're just learning the ropes.   I would try to RELEASE this energy instead of trying to nail it down with too many rules and Soviet style central planning, based on premature guesses of how the game plays...

[Neyvn]

Can I just asked, were did you guys read me telling miners to slow down??? All I remember saying is not for 1 person to empty a plot...

[Bluerobin]

I could oversee the second forest if you're still looking for someone. I've got scientist to find new trees and hunter to find food that'll turn into fertilizer that I could have someone else use to keep fertility up.