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[magistrate101]

Seems a little sadistic to me.

You're saying this in a forum dedicated to a game where you can throw animals, and probly people, into spiked pits, pits full of lava, or just plain pits.
You should be looking at the game and think that it isn't graphic enough.

This forum has never been good at spotting satires, has it?

Depends on how obviously satirical it is...

... This is really bad.

I just don't see the joy in enslaving africans.

What a joyless life you must lead.

And apparently as is my life, according to your standards...

[alexpoysky]

Auschwitz tycoon deluxe, JEW EDITION. AMIRITE?

But seriously, guys, it's a fake, proven fake even. Stop discussing it

[Supercharazad]

Auschwitz tycoon deluxe, JEW EDITION. AMIRITE?

But seriously, guys, it's a fake, proven fake even. Stop discussing it

*gasp* Really?

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

[justinlee999]

BEAT THEM, I SAY, BEAT THEM!!!

[Sappho]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I just have to laugh at the idea of people getting offended at certain games and not at others. Realistic war FPS games where you murder countless soldiers just because your country's rich people are angry at their country's rich people? Totally fine. Civilization - a series which starts out with exterminating "barbarians" and continues with crushing opponents who have a smaller military than you - totally fine. Even better, Colonization, where you can only really be successful by exterminating all the native peoples of North America - no problems. GTA - prostitution, stealing, violence, running down innocent pedestrians - super as long as you're "mature" enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality. But mention black slavery and suddenly people are offended? Never mind that this is clearly not a real game - this is just like that Serial Killer roguelike hoax. It's fine to reward people for killing enemy human soldiers with realistic graphic violence or randomly kill civilians on the streets of Las Vegas, but it's "in poor taste" to simulate something like ASCII murder?

People gotta get their priorities straight. A game is a game. If one atrocity is okay, they all have to be okay.

[burningpet]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I just have to laugh at the idea of people getting offended at certain games and not at others. Realistic war FPS games where you murder countless soldiers just because your country's rich people are angry at their country's rich people? Totally fine. Civilization - a series which starts out with exterminating "barbarians" and continues with crushing opponents who have a smaller military than you - totally fine. Even better, Colonization, where you can only really be successful by exterminating all the native peoples of North America - no problems. GTA - prostitution, stealing, violence, running down innocent pedestrians - super as long as you're "mature" enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality. But mention black slavery and suddenly people are offended? Never mind that this is clearly not a real game - this is just like that Serial Killer roguelike hoax. It's fine to reward people for killing enemy human soldiers with realistic graphic violence or randomly kill civilians on the streets of Las Vegas, but it's "in poor taste" to simulate something like ASCII murder?

People gotta get their priorities straight. A game is a game. If one atrocity is okay, they all have to be okay.

finally.

[kerlc]

maybe if the game would not be so PROUD, and yell: HEY LOOK AT ME! I AM MORALY QUESTIONABLE! WHERE'S THE FREE PRESS!!? i would consider buying it. if it would be a trade sim, with ability to trade slaves, i'd (maybe) look into it, but so far? nah, i'll pass.

[Pnx]

... but it's "in poor taste" to simulate something like ASCII murder?

People gotta get their priorities straight. A game is a game. If one atrocity is okay, they all have to be okay.

One of the things I was trying to point out was that people got very excited over the serial killer roguelike. In fact there's a real version in the works. Although it's development seems pretty dead.

What I was trying to say is that I think a lot of us harbour some small fantasies about being a serial killer, evading cops, dropping subtle clues about the next victim, avoid leaving fingerprints and such behind. It's an interesting game of cat and mouse, and human beings do have a blood thirsty streak.
Plus everybody, no matter how pacifistic, has at some point in their life thought something like "I really want to kill that guy". It's what makes Dexter such an interesting show.

But the same doesn't apply to slavery. In general there's a world of difference between killing, and torture/imprisonment. I think people would have been a lot less interested in the serial killer roguelike if it had been more of a "lock girls up in your basement" sim. I don't think people are interested in making people suffer just for the sake of profit... except maybe for job managers.
I find that interesting.

[Servant Corps]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I just have to laugh at the idea of people getting offended at certain games and not at others. Realistic war FPS games where you murder countless soldiers just because your country's rich people are angry at their country's rich people? Totally fine. Civilization - a series which starts out with exterminating "barbarians" and continues with crushing opponents who have a smaller military than you - totally fine. Even better, Colonization, where you can only really be successful by exterminating all the native peoples of North America - no problems. GTA - prostitution, stealing, violence, running down innocent pedestrians - super as long as you're "mature" enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality.

In all those games, you are given the option to commit horrible crimes, and are rewarded for doing them, but you don't have to. In those games, you have the freedom of action: the ability to do great evil, but always the unspoken alternative to do good.

*Realistic War FPS: If your goal in a FPS is to get to the end of the level, that is what you should do at all costs. Avoid all enemies, use nonlethal takedowns when available, and overall, play pacifically. If you do have to kill to progress (say, the boss), kill the absolute minimum, and always strive to make their deaths quick and painless.
*Civilization: Build diplomats to bribe off barbarian hordes (if you're playing Civilization 2), change civics on a daily basis to appease the AI (if you're playing Civilization 4), never declare war on your opponents and stay neutral in any conflicts that does occur, garrison troops to protect against any attacks that does occur (barbarian or civilized), build city walls so that you lose no POP units if you lose a garrisoned battle, expand peacefully by building cities in strategic locations before other civilizations get them, aim for either a Diplomatic Victory or the Spaceship Victory.
*Colonization: Same thing, though with more emphasis with dealing with tribes on a more even-handed basis. If you're playing the modern version, ALWAYS pick the pro-native option when writing your constitutions.
*GTA: After doing the initial courier mission, ignore all story missions and do the minigames such as taxidriving, firefighting and vigilante missions. Isn't the whole point of crime is to make money? If there is an easier (and semi-legal [you do have to steal the vehicle first]) way to generate income, why not do that?

But mention black slavery and suddenly people are offended?

There is no way to game a trading sim geared towards slavery that would avoid...unfortunate implications. Granted, if there was a trading sim, then people will likely game it, but until then, it would seem that we are "forced" to be evil rather than "choose" to be evil.

[Sappho]

It may be possible to play those games without doing anything morally objectionable, but not without missing out on half of the games' content. They are designed to be played by doing these things, and no one objects to that. People don't buy war FPS games so that they can play as pacifists, they play to shoot and kill enemy soldiers. It might be possible to play a slavery sim without actually enslaving people - maybe you could ship directly from North America to Europe as part of the "triangle" trade that occurred but skip the trip to Africa - and thereby miss the main part of the game, but that wouldn't stop people from finding it offensive.

The problem here is not that such a game would "force" you to do something you don't like (in which case, as others have said, simply don't buy/play it, no one can force you to play). The problem is the specific topic. No one feels guilty about the systematic extermination of the American Indian population anymore, but people still feel guilty about black slavery. Just like no one feels bothered by widespread murder during a war because war is considered somehow "righteous," but in general people find a single murder without an army (or other force of "good") behind it to be evil even in simulation form.

[Neonivek]

This forum has never been good at spotting satires, has it?

I can spot GOOD satires.

But what exactly is the point of this if it is a satire?

It might be possible to play a slavery sim without actually enslaving people - maybe you could ship directly from North America to Europe as part of the "triangle" trade that occurred but skip the trip to Africa

I really... REALLY hope your joking.

[nenjin]

You're saying this in a forum dedicated to a game where you can throw animals, and probly people, into spiked pits, pits full of lava, or just plain pits.

I get your point but this is one thing that has always stuck out to me about DF that honestly spares it most of those kinds of accusations about being sadistic. And that's the fact that almost all the sadism is emergent. Sure DF might have gory combat, but Toady doesn't have it rename goblins into "Slaves." (He leaves the room for you to do that yourself.) Kind of like why he's never coded in dookie. There's a big difference to me about game play that emerges to be one thing, and game play that is plotted from the outset to be that way. When you write your game so your Nail Bat +2 reduces a slave's self-esteem by 23 points, to me you're making a point as a game designer about what you're interested in. When part A happens to interact with part B when put in the hands of a devious gamer....you've written an open game.

Anyways, people should read at least some of the thread before they want to wade in and give their two cents.

[Neonivek]

Well that and there is VERY little indication that "Suffering" even exists in Dwarf Fortress

Heck... Suffering doesn't exist.

Being in great pain while all your limbs are being cut off is a minor inconveniance.

[nenjin]

Well, most games don't focus on the suffering. You tend to hit an emotional wall eventually.

[Lmaoboat]

This forum has never been good at spotting satires, has it?

I can spot GOOD satires.

But what exactly is the point of this if it is a satire?

Probably just to go, LOL! SO EDGY XD."  Shock humor is to humor what a board with a nail in it is to weaponry.