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[Sting_Auer]

There I was, just playing around with dwarf fortress, making all [PET_EXOTIC] creatures into [PET] as I captured legions of naked mole dogs and elk birds, and i thought to myself:


I have a volcano. I have a lot of useless migrants. I want to see what is at the bottom of the volcano.


Thus, this idea was born:


Make a capsule with farms and maybe a cow for milk. Put a small food stockpile with some lavish meals in it. Suspend it above the volcano with a support, and pull the switch.



I have a few questions though.

1. Will these guys survive the fall?

2. Even more importantly, will the capsule survive?

3. Would it be in any way possible to retrieve the capsule afterwards?

4. could I expand the capsule to the walls of the volcano somehow?

[Sir Broccoli]

The capsule won't survive if it's a construction. Only natural rock (or cast obsidian) will survive a cave-in. Constructions will be destroyed.
I don't see how you could retrieve the capsule, but you could probably create some kind of tube that leads towards it by casting obsidian right on top of it.
Expanding might be possible if you manage to dig a hole in the side of the capsule and then immediately pump water out of it. Rinse, repeat, fuck up, drown, burn, savescum, repeat again.
I have no idea if your dorfs would survive, guess there's only one way to find out...

[Sting_Auer]

The capsule won't survive if it's a construction. Only natural rock (or cast obsidian) will survive a cave-in. Constructions will be destroyed.
I don't see how you could retrieve the capsule, but you could probably create some kind of tube that leads towards it by casting obsidian right on top of it.
Expanding might be possible if you manage to dig a hole in the side of the capsule and then immediately pump water out of it. Rinse, repeat, fuck up, drown, burn, savescum, repeat again.
I have no idea if your dorfs would survive, guess there's only one way to find out...

So constructions get destroyed?


Even if they are magma safe?

[Mitchewawa]

Yep. Gotta carve your capsule out of natural walls, which is tricky.

Also, the roof will cave in on impact, crushing your dwarves.

[Sphalerite]

Constructions are destroyed by falling.  The magma is irrelevant.

Furthermore, even a capsule made entirely of natural rock will not survive.  Each piece of stone falls independently, so the interior of the capsule will be smashed flat as the capsule roof collapses onto the capsule floor.

This idea has been brought up many times before, and people have tried many times in vain to make it work.

[Sting_Auer]

Well dang.


there has got to be SOME way to do this...



What if I have no roof, and I fill the thing with water



In theory, that would cause the water on top to turn into obsidian , making a clean seal.

[Sphalerite]

Read this thread.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56305

It should answer any questions you have about the feasibility of the project.

[Lectorog]

You'll have to DFhack a landing pad of obsidian - there is nothing at the bottom.

Cast it from obsidian, and it will survive the fall. Ceilings will collapse into empty space, however, so you'll have to figure out a way around that. Do supports deconstruct when falling?

For retrieval, you'll have to bore through with repeated obsidianizing of magma (no easy process); or drain the entire volcano.

I'm not even sure, since they can't see through obsidian, if your dwarves can actually discover anything through the capsule.

[Sting_Auer]

Hmm....



i just skimmed through that thread.



and I have a new idea.



make a 7x7x7 cube with supports for a ceiling. Flood the top with water.


make a 5x5x5 cube inside of it, also with a support ceiling, with 1 unit of space between the 2 capsules.


use a support on the bottom of the 7x7x7 cube to join the two together.


Fill the space with water.


Hook up a mechanism to the support, then use another support to hang the entire structure from an arm stretching over the lava.



Hook up all of the supports to a lever.



Put dwarves inside with food and farms





This will be my test to see if it will work.




On my second attempt, I will make a little "arms" sticking out of the sides that touch the sides of the volcano, in hopes of touching a solid wall.



Wish me luck!





EDIT: Also, glass windows.

[Teneb]

On my second attempt, I will make a little "arms" sticking out of the sides that touch the sides of the volcano, in hopes of touching a solid wall.

This won't work, because, as stated before, each tile falls independently, and can only be stopped by falling on something solid, if you want to have an "intact" capsule, you'll need to use dfhack to paint a "landing pad". Try filling the whole thing with 3/7 water, see what happens.

EDIT: Also, glass windows.

I'm afraid they'll also de-construct. Probably the farm will too

[Sting_Auer]

On my second attempt, I will make a little "arms" sticking out of the sides that touch the sides of the volcano, in hopes of touching a solid wall.

This won't work, because, as stated before, each tile falls independently, and can only be stopped by falling on something solid, if you want to have an "intact" capsule, you'll need to use dfhack to paint a "landing pad". Try filling the whole thing with 3/7 water, see what happens.

The arms would have the same construction method as the core, with a layer of construction, water, then construction, in order to make obsidian as soon as it hits.

[Musashi]

Okay, I need to ask, and I figure it is a good thread to do so.

Let's say I make a U-shaped "capsule" (as in, a, open room with no ceiling). Let's also say I want to drop it down something I know has a solid ground (as opposed to semi-molten rock or pure emptiness), and I know how many z-levels it is deep. Like, say, a sea.
If I carve a sufficiently tall U-shaped capsule in such a way the top goes over the water/magma once the floor touches said solid ground, will the walls become incorporeal during the fall and let the water/magma leak inside? Or may I hope to launch stuff and living beings down there, while also hoping they stay relatively whole and undrowned/unburnt?
Which of these am I more likely to see? (Side views, ~=liquid, #=walls)

    #    #
~~#~~#~~
~~#~~#~~
~~####~~
#########

or

    #    #
~~#    #~~
~~#    #~~
~~####~~
#########

?



Yes, I know this question is relative to dwarven !!SCIENCE!!, and, as such, should require me to test it myself. However, since I'm waiting for the new version to play again, and I haven't encountered any proper sea, magma-infested area, or whatever... and that I'd rather go vanilla, without modding/use of DFhack or anything... I'd just like to know if someone has tried it already. If nobody else did, then I know what I'll be experimenting next time.

[Sphalerite]

Actually, you'll get this:

Code: [Select]

  ~  ~
  ~  ~
  ~  ~
  #~~#
~~#~~#~~
~~#~~#~~
~~####~~
#########

At least for a moment, then the pillars of magma will slump and flow to the sides.

Magma isn't destroyed when solid walls fall on it.  It teleports upwards to clear space.  This is what makes the magma piston pumping system possible.

[Musashi]

Damn. I knew it.
 
So, it's official, no capsule is possible. For the time being.

[Lectorog]

Have you ever read this book?
It has taught me two things:
1) "Centre" is way better than "Center"
2) Dwarf Fortress has everything right. They totally found an underground lake, cavern creatures, etc. Light source is also explained in the book.

I think they bypassed the aquifer and first cavern layer, and made it to the second. This would explain how they were halfway to the center centre of the Earth.
It's a really good thing they didn't make it all the way to the lowest. What sights to behold.


Anyway, water is the way to go about this. Arms made of cast obsidian, with water inside, would work flawlessly. They fall, the ceiling collapses, water is pushed up, combines with lava/magma to make obsidian. The arms/tunnels would have to be (long)x3x3 for this to work.


Musashi, that should work. Take note that it will displace water, so if it's a small body, it may rise. The walls (if natural) will remain intact for the duration. So, the latter diagram.

Sphalerite: Magma pistons only work with solid constructions. Water should just displace to the sides, right? I know it teleports above a solid structure; but not an open-top one when there's space to the sides?
You probably have more experience than I do, but everything I've read would point to it working.