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Author Topic: Religion In Hard Times  (Read 7162 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 08:56:38 pm »

If you're submitting to having bible study every other day, it's just going to make her more fanatical about this.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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squeakyReaper

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 09:32:47 pm »

She's already making me go to church for a month once my baby brother turns 9 months, despite my constant protesting.  Everytime I react negatively to anything religion related, she assumes it's because I'm a bitter, cynical teenager.  I mean, I am, but still.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 09:37:39 pm »

You're 19 years old, according to your profile at least. If she tries to make you go to church, don't go. This is only going to get worse if you enable her.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

squeakyReaper

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2011, 09:40:03 pm »

Aye, I'm 19.  Living in her house, getting paid to watch her kids (it's harder than it sounds), getting through college by her...  I doubt she'll cut me off from vital things, but it's scary.  I'll try and cement my "no" stance as time goes by.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2011, 09:42:22 pm »

Every time you concede to her makes her more sure that she'll show you "the light", so I hope for your sake that isn't a long period of time.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

shadenight123

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2011, 02:19:19 pm »

i was baptised christian.
it's just a little water. (and i was a child so i couldn't really say "no, thank you")
but even then...it's a little water.
it's not islamism, where you have to go on without ham for the rest of your life, or have to cover your women up, or have to live with the fear of being considered a terrorist.
it's not judaism where you have to pass saturdays doing little, or have to go to religious events depending on costumes and traditions.
good thing about christianity? they teach to show the other cheek. and they teach to be nice to others.
which means that, unless anything major happens, just go for the "little water" and then stop altogether doing anything more. and if your mother insists, just tell her she's a bad christian for obligeing you to do more.
you had your "little water" it doesn't matter if you grow old or die or anything, for christianity, your ticket to heaven is already there...just as long as you keep to being a goody-two-shoes. (not even in the really strict term of it, just, you know, do confess your crimes before dieing)
that's all. and it's not even blasphemous. you need god? chit chat alone to an invisible ever-listening presence and be happy with it. (which sounds much like a madmens rantling, but hey, that's my way of praying to god, who are the others to tell me something? at least my god doesn't order me to kill infidels, or to obey laws made thousands of years ago, or something else. i respect other religions, as long as they respect my freedom to express my opinion)
she's christian, if she were to blackmail you into submission to christianity, she'd fail at her being a christian. she can speak to you, encourage you maybe, but she can't force your hand.
or just go and speak to the christian priest about it.
and 10% to tithes!? is she out of her mind!? i'm an italian speaking here, i'm (i suppose) closer to the pope than you are, so, i can assure you, tithes!? for the love of heavens, one euro is more than enough. (one dollar and fourty cents? reduce to maybe half a dollar) it's the thought that counts. and we already pay the christians out in the world ourselves with "8 per mille" here in italy...so...don't worry, my taxes will pay also for your mothers share.
*goes back to rambling about how he wish he had had the idea to found a religion on dragon gods*
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squeakyReaper

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2011, 04:17:09 pm »

The pope is for Catholicism, but I don't know how much influence he has in other sects of Christianity.  But no.  There's no way I'm setting aside everything I believe in to be baptised.  I would really rather be shot in the foot.  I want to avoid her damaging herself in this unusual way, but she's a big girl, so to speak.  As an adult, she can make whatever mistakes (or glorious things) she wants to do, my support or not...  but I'm not going to get a little water dumped on me to appease her.
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scriver

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 05:29:02 pm »

it's not islamism, where you have to go on without ham for the rest of your life, or have to cover your women up, or have to live with the fear of being considered a terrorist.
it's not judaism where you have to pass saturdays doing little, or have to go to religious events depending on costumes and traditions.
Dude. So many Christian sects have you doing exactly this as well. With Sundays instead of Saturdays, mostly, but that's irrelevant.

And yeah, while getting baptised does not mean you have to live like a Christian, but neither does getting the Islamic or Jewish equivalents require you to live as a devout Muslim or Jew.

Quote
you had your "little water" it doesn't matter if you grow old or die or anything, for christianity, your ticket to heaven is already there...just as long as you keep to being a goody-two-shoes. (not even in the really strict term of it, just, you know, do confess your crimes before dieing)
Not in Protestant churches you don't. It's different from Catholicism that way. You're a filthy, filthy creature since birth and God doesn't think you're worthy for heaven unless you live a sinless life, the whole of it or as much as you can. Feeling sorry and regretting the sin at the end doesn't quite make it.

There's no way I'm setting aside everything I believe in to be baptised.  I would really rather be shot in the foot.  I want to avoid her damaging herself in this unusual way, but she's a big girl, so to speak.  As an adult, she can make whatever mistakes (or glorious things) she wants to do, my support or not...  but I'm not going to get a little water dumped on me to appease her.
I agree. I was baptised when I was a little kid because of tradition, but I was never "confirmated" (or whatever the rite is called in English), even though I was going to force myself through it for the presents at first. It just felt way to wrong to go down on my already strong opinions on that matter. No selling out for me!

Though, I ended up getting my main present anyway, a gold necklace with my family's coat of arms, since my parents had already ordered it. Double win for me!
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Criptfeind

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2011, 08:55:47 pm »

Religion really is a personal thing in many ways. You really should be firm on the fact that you need to find your own way without her help.

I guess you could also point out that if you don't truly believe it won't count, so she trying to get it done to you is a bad idea. I don't know the bible that well, but I think it says that in Mark 16 somewhere?

Edit: I looked it up, cause I was curious, Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Course actually saying that would most likely be a bad idea, but the general point is good.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 09:00:43 pm by Criptfeind »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2011, 09:05:39 pm »

I'm going to echo what Willfor said.  It'll wear off.  She just had a radical shift of her worldview and is probably feeling like a blindfold has been pulled off her eyes.  You'd do the same thing if you had an equivalent worldshattering revelation. (Note that I'm not saying anything to the effect of whether or not what she believes is true, I'm just saying how she probably feels).  She'll calm down.
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Willfor

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2011, 10:14:17 pm »

Religion really is a personal thing in many ways. You really should be firm on the fact that you need to find your own way without her help.

I guess you could also point out that if you don't truly believe it won't count, so she trying to get it done to you is a bad idea. I don't know the bible that well, but I think it says that in Mark 16 somewhere?

Edit: I looked it up, cause I was curious, Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Course actually saying that would most likely be a bad idea, but the general point is good.
Baptism is a contested issue in some circles due to the wording earlier in the chapter:

Quote from: Mark 1:4-8
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River. John wore clothing made of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Depending on when you believe the baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs (yes, there are active debates on this issue), there are differing views on when exactly you've been baptized. To some, the ritual is fluff meant to be an outward representation of a process that has already occurred inside you. To others, the outward baptism is the most important because it establishes a concrete point at which this has happened to the person. And to be honest, you do more harm than good if you just go along with it without actually believing it means something, and this can lead to hurt feelings by all parties.

If it's not what you believe, don't do it. If she's teaching at a collage, or working there at any rate, I would hope that she's mature enough to take no for an answer.
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Jimlad11

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2011, 08:15:52 am »

I would agree with the diagnosis of "New Christian Syndrome". I have seen it happen before to people that have recently converted, but it does reduce as time goes on.

Heck, you could do what I sometimes do when confronted by people that are close to me trying to convert me; pretend I'm Buddhist.  ;) While I'm not technically a Buddhist, I can sympathise with and understand that religion the most.

My advice is to just hold firm, and ride out this difficult patch. I wouldn't actively argue with her, as you said that she does own the house, but I would just make sure that she knows your stance on the matter. Remind her if necessary. Going to church to make her happy might not be a bad thing, but it depends on how you feel about it.   
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squeakyReaper

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2011, 08:52:26 am »

I have no choice on the church thing, at least a couple sessions.  Something tells me that pretending to be buddhist won't work on my own mom, though.  xD
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NRDL

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2011, 09:14:01 am »

Ok, this is very interesting.  Is the problem here that your mom suddenly turns her back on all her atheistic beliefs, or is the fact that she's trying to convert you as well that's the problem?

I seriously cannot imagine what this must be like, forgive me if I seem like I'm being arrogant, or overstepping, or anything.  It's you and your mom's life, and for some reason, you decided to get some advice from us homicidal maniacs.  So be it.

Stand your ground, but be gentle.  I'm sure millions of people have given advice like that to other people, for a number of problems, and I dunno if it will help at all, but it's worth a try.  It's a classic "easier said than done" piece of advice, but you have to start somewhere. 

I guess you can also try really telling her your feelings.  However, if what I'm reading about her zealotry is correct, that might not work.  If you want to be bit drastic, point out every single flaw in Christianity and the church.  Tear apart her belief, stomp the bible into the dust, watch the Exorcist a hundred times, throw a tantrum, join a satanism cult, blow up a church-

...See, this is why you shouldn't always look to Bay12ers for advice, especially me.  The pathetic attempt at humor aside, good luck, and believe what you want to believe. 
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Falc

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Re: Religion In Hard Times
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2011, 09:46:20 am »

On the one hand, if you could make yourself pretend for her sake, it would make things easier, I guess. But that's something you need to decide for yourself.

From the sound of it, though, telling her you are seriously considering it but that you need time to make your decision could be a viable way forward. Stall, basically. With some luck, she'll calm down a bit in time.

You could also try mentioning it in passing to the people in your bible studies group or something. Don't rant like you did here, but just a remark in passing about how you're not sure about all this and are feeling pressured. With some luck, someone with a bit of standing in the community will have the sense to know that a forced conversion isn't wort one hundredth of a genuine one and could try to tell your mother.
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