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[Levi]

I liked it.  The short story format really worked well for it. 

[DrKillPatient]

I've listened to about half of it as an audio book. I thought it was pretty decent, but then readers often go to great lengths to add characterization to their lines. So on that I can't really have an opinion, as it's impossible for me to separate the quality of the writing from the people reading it. (Also kind of hard to remember.)

That it's been swallowed by Hollywood comes as no surprise. Cue the FX departments making scenes of Blackhawks in the sky and air strikes on urban neighborhoods, and lonely zombies looking up into the sky asking "WWWHHHHHHYYYYYYYY??"

It's funny, it's almost like Hollywood rejects the vision that we failed to defend ourselves adequately and is re-themeing the movie. Like "Oh noes, a movie about the aftermath will depress people and they won't see it!" When the reality is "Oh noes, people are bored with our last minute victory against catastrophe before they've even seen it!"

This. So much this. I don't watch any movies/read any books that turn out well for the heroes unless it's logically sound that such a thing happens, which is quite rare. Happy endings bore me, honestly.

And I think I did read WWZ, quite a while ago. I suppose I liked it at the time, although the overuse of zombies in everything sort of dulls the experience.

[mainiac]

It's funny, it's almost like Hollywood rejects the vision that we failed to defend ourselves adequately and is re-themeing the movie. Like "Oh noes, a movie about the aftermath will depress people and they won't see it!" When the reality is "Oh noes, people are bored with our last minute victory against catastrophe before they've even seen it!"

I don't think it's depression so much as the catastrophe seems fake.  There are successful movies about catastrophe that draw from actual historical events.

In order to accept the original plot, you have to accept that people are really, really, really stupid.  All it would have taken to survive the zombies in a crowded area is a treehouse or upstairs room and some supplies.  Put yourself out of reach and they can't hurt you, then you'll be fine until rescue arrives.  And rescue will arrive because there shouldn't be a huge outbreak.  Why the hell are people getting slaughtered when surviving is so easy?  In urban areas you don't even need to wait for rescue because you can just toss a rope to a neighboring building.  The whole scenario stinks to high heaven if you want to make a nitty gritty "realism" setting.  It's not a tale of tragedy, it's a tale of mass suicidal stupidity.

Compare that to an actual movie about tragedy like Schindlers list or Hotel Rwanda.  There we see people doing the best they can in a bad situation.  But the situation is just too horrible for them to do enough.  That speaks to us at a very fundamental level, we can struggle mightily against the darkness, but in the end there is always a limit to our strength.  We are not gods, we are not masters of our own destinies.  That is human existence.

[ChairmanPoo]

I think the whole point of modern zombie movies and novels is escapist fantasy. Not much about "gosh, zombies destroyed the world" as "gosh, zombies killed everyone and now I can do anything I want, because I survived thanks to my smarts!"

[CT]

It's funny, it's almost like Hollywood rejects the vision that we failed to defend ourselves adequately and is re-themeing the movie. Like "Oh noes, a movie about the aftermath will depress people and they won't see it!" When the reality is "Oh noes, people are bored with our last minute victory against catastrophe before they've even seen it!"

I don't think it's depression so much as the catastrophe seems fake.  There are successful movies about catastrophe that draw from actual historical events.

In order to accept the original plot, you have to accept that people are really, really, really stupid.  All it would have taken to survive the zombies in a crowded area is a treehouse or upstairs room and some supplies.  Put yourself out of reach and they can't hurt you, then you'll be fine until rescue arrives.  And rescue will arrive because there shouldn't be a huge outbreak.  Why the hell are people getting slaughtered when surviving is so easy?  In urban areas you don't even need to wait for rescue because you can just toss a rope to a neighboring building.  The whole scenario stinks to high heaven if you want to make a nitty gritty "realism" setting.  It's not a tale of tragedy, it's a tale of mass suicidal stupidity.

Compare that to an actual movie about tragedy like Schindlers list or Hotel Rwanda.  There we see people doing the best they can in a bad situation.  But the situation is just too horrible for them to do enough.  That speaks to us at a very fundamental level, we can struggle mightily against the darkness, but in the end there is always a limit to our strength.  We are not gods, we are not masters of our own destinies.  That is human existence.

Sure, humans are stupid if you have not realized that by now you are either VERY stupid or VERY sheltered. The reason that the zombie apocalypse was allowed to blow up to become the world changer that it was, was due to the fact that humans are VERY STUPID.

[blackmagechill]

People aren't THAT stupid. Sure, there are a lot of dumbasses out there, but the amount of devastation predicted wouldn't happen. (I've only read the guide, but from what he says it seems like he's playing on nobody owning a gun or being able to give into the instinct to fuck another semi-human beings shit at the slightest threat).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

People do a lot of stupid things, but I'd think that failing to recognize an undead threat before it causes a global catastrophe is a bit too stupid.

[mainiac]

Sure, humans are stupid if you have not realized that by now you are either VERY stupid or VERY sheltered. The reason that the zombie apocalypse was allowed to blow up to become the world changer that it was, was due to the fact that humans are VERY STUPID.

Why do people act as if cynicism is somehow removed from the need for rigor that applies to other arguments?  People are "stupid" for a sufficiently accurate definition of "stupid".  However they are smart enough to figure out that the creatures that can not climb will not be able to access them at elevated locations.  A zombie is a lesser threat then a great number of predators.

I think the whole point of modern zombie movies and novels is escapist fantasy. Not much about "gosh, zombies destroyed the world" as "gosh, zombies killed everyone and now I can do anything I want, because I survived thanks to my smarts!"

Maybe that's why I find world war z so unapealing.  If zombie movies are like porn for violence, then world war z is watching a pizza delivery guy go about his regular day in the lead up to getting an order for a spicy hot sausage.

[CT]

Sure, humans are stupid if you have not realized that by now you are either VERY stupid or VERY sheltered. The reason that the zombie apocalypse was allowed to blow up to become the world changer that it was, was due to the fact that humans are VERY STUPID.

Why do people act as if cynicism is somehow removed from the need for rigor that applies to other arguments?  People are "stupid" for a sufficiently accurate definition of "stupid".  However they are smart enough to figure out that the creatures that can not climb will not be able to access them at elevated locations.  A zombie is a lesser threat then a great number of predators.

I think the whole point of modern zombie movies and novels is escapist fantasy. Not much about "gosh, zombies destroyed the world" as "gosh, zombies killed everyone and now I can do anything I want, because I survived thanks to my smarts!"

Maybe that's why I find world war z so unapealing.  If zombie movies are like porn for violence, then world war z is watching a pizza delivery guy go about his regular day in the lead up to getting an order for a spicy hot sausage.

Sure you can hide or stay out of reach but humans need to eat and drink. What happens when food runs out? Do you stay and starve? Or do you take a chance running past them? Even if you are smarter, faster, and more agile than all the zombies in the world you can't keep going forever, they can.

And yes most modern zombie/apocalypse books/movies are about screwing around in a destroyed world. However I feel that those that focus on the human aspect of the end of the world are by far the best.
The day to day survival of the people and not just senseless violence like ZOMG a zombie!!!!1111one shoot0orz it.

[mainiac]

Sure you can hide or stay out of reach but humans need to eat and drink. What happens when food runs out? Do you stay and starve? Or do you take a chance running past them? Even if you are smarter, faster, and more agile than all the zombies in the world you can't keep going forever, they can.

Yeah, but you can last in uncomfortable hiding for a couple days just fine, longer if you have even a small amount of water.  And that's all the time you would realistically need to hide before rescue came.  Because frankly, any outbreak isn't going to be very big.  There is no rational reason for a person to go up against a large group of zombies unless they are being forced to by thirst.  Thus the spreading of an outbreak is going to be measured in days while the response to the outbreak is going to be measured in hours.  By the time a decent sized horde was created, they would be outnumbered by the military 10-1.

[Criptfeind]

Plus I am pretty sure a eight foot ledge and a sharp stick is enough to deal with quite a large number of zombies, so why hide at all?

[alway]

If you recall from the tale's beginning, the whole reason it manages to spread is because the country of origin, in this case China, had more or less local inefficiency followed by cover-up to save face for the government. Under those circumstances, and probably very few others, a zombie outbreak would be possible. If zombies are the last thing on your mind, as they would be if the Chinese government were to cover it up (they could pretty effectively prevent news of it spreading what with owning the media), your first reaction is not to shoot everyone in the head. If you were to see a zombie in the early days of their being undead, they would look mostly human, albeit diseased. It's why it's mistaken for a variation of rabies early on. The most likely response from the average person would be to either call for an ambulance or police and try restraining or otherwise incapacitating without taking measures which would harm the average human. Half the country would be dead and the other half inconveniently located by the time the general public realized what was happening. And once the most populous country on earth was mostly undead, with the rest of the earth having little more than an idea that some strange disaster is happening in a foreign land, zombies have got a good foothold to go from. Also keep in mind, World War Z's zombies are somewhere between the fast and slow zombies based on their age. They start out with all the dexterity and speed of the original person (1 in 4 zombies can climb a ladder, as per the survival guide), only breaking down as the muscle fibers stop working without being able to repair themselves. There's also the 24 hour incubation period, allowing for quarantines to be breached; and in the early days of confusion, they would be breached all over the place; it spreads not only through bites, but through any sort of blood contact with the infected material, meaning no obvious external signs in many cases.

Sure, an outbreak is going to fail as soon as people realize it is a zombie outbreak; but until then, it will spread. Zombies main weakness is information; World War Z begins in such a way as to prevent people from knowing anything about what is happening.

It's also inaccurate to describe the book as 'in the end, we were defeated.' In the end, humans are still around and rebuilding, the zombies are hardly more of a menace than ground squirrels so long as proper precautions are taken, ect. The zombie outbreak didn't defeat humans; it simply takes a while to get rid of those which were wandering underwater or frozen in the ice. By the end, they are talking about systematically destroying any of the remaining zombies; even underwater hunts with harpoons and such in some cases. If that wasn't the case, the main character wouldn't be working for the UN, as there would be no nations left to be united.

[CT]

well fuck whatever i was about to say alway pretty much just stomped my tiny line of text with a BIG BIG WALL OF TEXT OMFMDGHHGAAAH!!!!

Having said that alway is making a very good point.

[mainiac]

Okay, so lets suppose that all of china is infected.  How does that affect me over hear in the US?  Yes, a slow trickle of carriers are going to get out.  But even so, once we are on guard, that slow trickle of carriers poses absolutely no threat to outside population centers.  If there are zombies, the first thing I'm going to do is secure a safe area that is only accessible by ladder.  Millions of other people will have the same idea.  Word of this strategy would spread worldwide in a manner of hours.  Within 24 hours, a sufficient number of people have protected themselves that there will be "population immunity" even though some people won't protect themselves.  Once that happens, an outbreak response is fairly easy.  Zombie outbreaks are easier to contain then outbreaks of most diseases and plagues aren't a big danger in all but the poorest countries these days.

But secondly, that whole china secrecy idea is complete and utter crap.  It's just "cynicism" about human nature overriding our common sense.  I was in china very recently and the so called great firewall of china is extremely porous to an English speaker.  China has a lot of English speakers and many of them do enjoy communicating with the western world.  But even beyond that, the read on the Chinese government is a laughable caricature.  This isn't the china of the cultural revolution.  They are authoritarian and a bit dickish but they aren't stupid, in fact the national leadership is pretty damn savvy (although some of the provincials are as dumb as some american governors).  Supposing that the Chinese government would behave in such a bass-ackwards fashion, even assuming they were capable, which they aren't is just another example of an uninformed american writer portraying foreigners through stupid stereotypes.  It's closer to racism then a plot explanation.

[ChairmanPoo]

If you were to see a zombie in the early days of their being undead, they would look mostly human, albeit diseased

On this, I'd like to point out most people's reaction to seeing someone who looks sick (let alone very sick) is to stay away. Even when it's not too contagious (look at the social discrimination that lepers and AIDS sufferers undergo)