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Author Topic: Kleiber's Law (why IRL elephants don't regularly starve)  (Read 1617 times)

Ken Oh

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Kleiber's Law (why IRL elephants don't regularly starve)
« on: August 27, 2011, 06:45:15 am »

Hi there, my first post here, I think. I randomly came across something that I think might help the issue with large animals starving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleiber%27s_law

Simply put, for the vast majority of animals in the real world, the required caloric intake only goes up 75% for every double in size. Therefore, a 12,800 lb. elephant only has to intake 29 times the calories as a 200 lb. deer, despite being 64 times larger.

Now, I'm looking at the Pasture page on magmawiki and it looks like there is a linear progression for how much an animal has to eat, to the current detrimental effects. I see how every animal's Grazer Amount * Creature Size = ~60,000,000. According to Kleiber's law, that shouldn't be the case. It looks like like it's more than 8 times harder to feed an elephant as it is a cow. It should really only be ~5 times harder. But, why start with the cow? A cow is currently 2 times harder to feed than a donkey (the cow being twice its size) when the cow should only be eating 175% what a donkey does.

I realize Toady probably already has heard the suggestion that larger animals have a lower relative metabolism, but it seems like he likes to be precise about things. My guess is to figure out what animal has the most desirable in-game grazing, then scale that up or down by 175% for each double/half in body size (i.e. if the donkey is the best at Grazer Amount 200, then the elephant should be ~21; if you go off of alpaca, then elephant should be ~30; and, basing off of groundhog would set elephants at ~130). That'll do for rough guestimation of values in between, but I'm sure Toady understands the math on the wiki page to make use of it.

I hope this can help!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Kleiber's Law (why IRL elephants don't regularly starve)
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 06:56:37 am »

I am fairly certain that currently, grazing is indeed linear relative to body size. Thanks for the exact numbers!
Also, on an unrelated note, trees and shrubs will help when browsing on them gets implemented.
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IT 000

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Re: Kleiber's Law (why IRL elephants don't regularly starve)
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 10:23:24 am »

Actually the numbers are not related to body size at all. The tag will say GRAZER:xxx. xxx being the number, the smaller the number the more they need to graze. Thus you can easily change the elephant to consume as much as the rabbit.
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Jheral

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Re: Kleiber's Law (why IRL elephants don't regularly starve)
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 04:45:40 am »

Actually the numbers are not related to body size at all. The tag will say GRAZER:xxx. xxx being the number, the smaller the number the more they need to graze. Thus you can easily change the elephant to consume as much as the rabbit.

I think he was talking about the relative size of the GRAZER value in comparison to body size, rather than suggesting that it be based on body size entirely (essentially, that the GRAZER values are inaccurate and should be adjusted).
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FallingWhale

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Re: Kleiber's Law (why IRL elephants don't regularly starve)
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 08:11:56 pm »

I think he was talking about the relative size of the GRAZER value in comparison to body size, rather than suggesting that it be based on body size entirely (essentially, that the GRAZER values are inaccurate and should be adjusted).
[GRAZER] numbers are right(we checked), big animals just have little mouths.
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Ken Oh

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Re: Kleiber's Law (why IRL elephants don't regularly starve)
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 11:14:48 pm »

I think he was talking about the relative size of the GRAZER value in comparison to body size, rather than suggesting that it be based on body size entirely (essentially, that the GRAZER values are inaccurate and should be adjusted).
[GRAZER] numbers are right(we checked), big animals just have little mouths.

What exactly did you check those numbers against?
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