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Author Topic: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide  (Read 2197 times)

Vector

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 04:29:09 pm »

So, I'm in pure mathematics, which means that I have a fairly different experience.  The course of study is mostly about doing extremely clever, abstract, and precise things with patterns and models of the real world, but not in order to solve real-world issues; it's mostly for the sake of the art itself, and the austere pleasure it brings.  Coursework focuses on solving problems and finding out which problems/questions are interesting and significant; also on classical issues of interest.  The emphasis is on proofs, rather than equations.  If you think about what you're doing in the real world, this course of study comes off quite a bit more boring than it really is.  Also, if you really enjoy physics, you will probably hate this a lot.

Applied mathematics, which sounds like it might be more the major for you, is indeed more about real-world issues.  Model a phenomenon, solve equations, find out new things about the phenomenon.  I'd say it's sort of the bridge between physics, mathematics, and engineering.  This is where things like fluid dynamics and modeling the spray of printer ink come in.  I have no idea about most of this; there's some statistics involved, lots of programming, lots of partial differential equations and so on.

If you really like "solving real life problems with math and stuff," though, you might prefer to try mechanical engineering.  I don't know too much about that, but it was the field I thought I was going to go into at the end of high school... so hey, at least I know a little.
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simonthedwarf

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2011, 05:10:41 pm »

I would suggest focusing on mathematics and leave the physics for later. You already have some background in programming? This is useful for you. Both mathematics and physics will help you as a programmer. And being able to program yourself for your work as a physicist or a mathematician will enable you to work in some cross-avenues that are really interresting.
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ed boy

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2011, 09:29:38 pm »

Note: the following post is based of my knowledge as a mathematician, and what I have picked up from my brother, a physisist.

Maths can be crudely divided into two area - pure and applied. Pure maths can be thought of as a study of logic - that is, if A and B are true, can you deduce C? Applied maths is finding solutions and manipulating equations.

Consider the example of an object whose height h is a function of time given by h=ut-gt2/2. A pure mathematician would tell you that h take some values none of the time, one value once and some values multiple times. If you wanted to find a solution for when h is a specific value, they could tell you if a solution exists or not, and if it exists they could tell you some facts about it (e.g. it would be less than zero). Actually finding the solution is the realm of applied maths.

A physisist, on the other hand, would consider the problem of firing an object into the air and modelling its height. The physisist would consider the situation, consider the forces and physical laws involved, eliminate negligible forces such as air resistance, and find that it follows the model above. The physisist can then use that to find solutions.

Physics and applied maths are extremely similar. Physically analysing a situation can produce a mathematical model that approximates it, and that model can the be solved to produce an answer. The pure mathematicians develop theorems, which the applied mathematicians then turn into solutions. The physisists then take these solutions and adapt them to fit their needs.
Taking both physics and maths is a very good choice. You'll find them both a hell of a lot easier, as there is so much overlap. Maths is a hard course, as is physics, but due to the enormous amounts of overlap, a maths/physics course is easier than almost, if not all other two subject combinations.

University level physics contains a lot of math. More than you think, by a long way, and more complicated than the math classes you'd experience at a pre-university level.

Also, programming is a very useful skill, for both mathematicians and physisists. Not only does programming enable one to better create complicated models (for the physisists), but the pure maths theorems can provide incredibly efficient solutions to otherwise extremely difficult problems. Furthermore, the mental processes and structure that are developed by programming are very helpful in both maths and physics.

I would encourage you not to think of maths and physics as seperate subjects. Instead, imagine a three step process for solving equations: Pure maths, where the concepts are rules are developed, Applied maths, where the concepts are applied in theoretical situations and solutions found, and Physics, where the theoretical solutions are adapted and made to fit real problems. A physics degree involves applied math and physics, whereas a math degree involves pure and applied math (though the proportions can change depending on what modules you do).
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 04:52:37 am by ed boy »
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Stargrasper

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2011, 12:04:11 am »

I study computer science and physics and I'm actually a good way through the math minor.

An fair, but oversimplification is that generally speaking, mathematicians focus on theoretical math and physicists focus on applied math.  Both have their own share of conceptual focuses as well, but physics will rely on more conceptual knowledge than math will.  So what will it be?  Theoretical or applied math?

Also consider your future.  What are you planning to do with a math degree?  What are you planning to do with a physics degree?  You can probably do more with a physics degree than a math degree.  Unless you get some kind of specialized degree...but even then, that doesn't necessarily help you in the long run.
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eerr

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2011, 12:23:45 am »

I'm fairly certain math degrees have easier positions availible.

physics are fairly consistant hard work,
and math can go right to the top(without many positions.).
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Vector

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2011, 12:26:11 am »

Hmm... I'm not sure I agree, but on the other hand I'm not sure that I understand what you mean, either.
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Taniec

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2011, 10:54:14 am »

Go to any stereotypical job search engine and positions that describe a math degree as a qualification tend to greatly outnumber those with a physics qualification. I personally feel from experience through friends and acquaintances that a degree in pure physics is not as in demand in comparison to math, engineering, etc. I wouldn't say that the positions between the two are any harder or easier to do, but just a bit more plentiful on the math side. Just something to take into consideration.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 10:55:54 am by Taniec »
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MonkeyHead

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2011, 01:12:39 pm »

I am Physicist, so IMHO qualified to comment, but also probably highly biased! If you do any Physics degree you will need to be mathematically competent at least up to the same levels as a Maths undergrad, but in specific areas - algebra, calculus, triginometry, matrix application are day to day musts. Many of my undergrad modules were the same as those of a Maths degree. I find myself needing to do a fair amout of coding too...

For me, maths is a tool - it is used as a logical reasoning device to explain observations of the Physical world, and to establish and explain relationships. Thank you mathematicians for providing me with such good tools. Whilst I love the theoretical elements of Maths (number theory and so on), unless it has a practical application it is pretty much irrelevant to my work. It depends if you want to work towards a deep understanding directly of the priciples underlying the universe (Physics), or a deep understanding of the rules that underpin the principles that the universe operates on, without really dealing with the principles, just the rules they must follow.

TLDR: Physics is the spanner used for mending an engine. Maths is the machine that made the spanner. I like mending engines. The machine that made the spanner is big and impressive and shiny, but knows nothing of engines.

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2011, 01:23:49 pm »




TLDR: Physics is the spanner used for mending an engine. Maths is the machine that made the spanner. I like mending engines. The machine that made the spanner is big and impressive and shiny, but knows nothing of engines.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2011, 01:27:08 pm »

Was waiting for that XKCD link...

Kesc

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2011, 10:54:05 pm »

Well, I like math because of the "magic behind it", I don't want to solve real problems neither use math as a tool...

I were interested in physics because it was misterious and FUN(And still is). But as ed boy said, it's not what I expected.

Applied Math/Physic degree = Use math as tool, study the real world, develop abstract ideas to use AS A TOOL. Focus on real world, observative.

Pure math = Study how the mathematic works, see real world problems only to solve them on the paper, to get the idea. Focus inside mind, intellectual.

Am I correct?
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Vector

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2011, 11:21:18 pm »

More like "real world problems are only used to make the mathematics more approachable."

Example: I have a friend who likes to hunt animals in Antarctica.  Last night he shot an icosahedron, skinned it, and put it on his wall.  What does it look like?
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Kesc

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2011, 09:11:13 am »

Speaking thus, physics seems boring. Anyway, I've already decided to take math. It is what I truly seek.

I'll apply the acquired knowledge in computing. I may become a mathematician, but I'll never stop coding! NEVER!
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G-Flex

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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2011, 10:40:45 am »

I don't want to solve real problems neither use math as a tool...
I'll apply the acquired knowledge in computing.

Oh.
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Re: College : Math or physics? Needing some help to decide
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2011, 12:02:02 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI
I'm fairly certain that this is what you need.
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