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[kluger]

I have 1039 stone fall traps surrounding the entrance to my fortress.  Recently, a kobold thief was wandering through the traps when one of my tame dogs discovered the kobold (protect the hoard!) and the dog goes after the thief.  He ends up on the exact same tile as the kobold and spring sprang the trap killing my poor little dog smashing him flatter than a pancake but the kobold got away.

My question?  Bug or no bug?  I'm kind of torn.  I can see it working this way:  Trap needs evil thing + >= 40 lbs.  Kobold weighs 20 lbs and dog weighs 20 lbs.  Evil thing on trap + weight on trap >= 40 = sprang trap and one flattened whatever.  Why couldn't it have happened to the Countess!  Armok you are cruel!

[Draco18s]

I think tame dogs can spring traps for some reason now, I had the same thing happen, minus the kobold.

[Zeofar]

I would say not a bug. I think it has more to do with the way kobolds are noticed by traps rather than kobold + weight. Then again, I am not that versed in the ways of the game, and I might be wrong. (Albiet, the fact that the dog attacking the kobold making the trap then "see" the kobold could be considered a bug, or it could just be the kobold was then off guard in some way)

Actually, Plop to all of this. Draco's explanation makes more sense.

[ March 01, 2008: Message edited by: Zeofar ]

[kluger]

Well, if tame dogs are setting off traps they are doing so quite rarely.  My dog was in the middle of a vast plain of traps and didn't set one off until he was on the same square as the kobold.

[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by kluger:
<STRONG>Well, if tame dogs are setting off traps they are doing so quite rarely.  My dog was in the middle of a vast plain of traps and didn't set one off until he was on the same square as the kobold.</STRONG>

I quite agree.  It's pretty rare.  My dog was killed by a stonefall trap thus:

#^^^# green
#^^^# red
#^^^# white, died on the middle one
#^^^# red
#^^^# white

(Damn, we lack the [color] tag!)

[Janus]

In a related issue, I've had 4 kobold thieves in a row noticed only after they got past most of a 5 tile long spread of stonefall traps just inside my main entrance. The kobolds then proceeded each time to run back through the stonefall traps. The problem? None of the 4 kobolds triggered a single trap on their way in or out.    :confused:

This is on 38c with the world also created in 38c.

I checked the bug list and couldn't find a report like this, other than the fixed bug from a few versions back which allowed native creatures to pass your traps.

Here is a savegame where one kobold has just gotten in to the second layer of stonefall traps and been noticed by a watchdog. After unpausing, he'll run back out through them without triggering them. If you wait a very short while, you'll get a couple more kobold thieves go through the same process. They're not getting in as far as they were when I was playing earlier, but they are getting in onto the second row of traps.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=54

EDIT: confirmed it wasn't just one thief returning repeatedly; the unit list shows 3 separate thieves.

[ March 08, 2008: Message edited by: Janus ]

[Draco18s]

From the wiki:

Kobolds are small humanoids, (slightly smaller than dwarves). They are technologically backward and use copper weapons.

Once your fortress has accumulated wealth, Kobold thieves will raid you in fortress mode, generally timing their attacks to coincide with the arrival of caravans. They are able to bypass any and all traps

[Janus]

It says the same about goblin thieves avoiding traps on the wiki, and yet I recall having them get killed by weapon traps without ever being spotted by my guys; their body parts, equipment, and blood would suddenly appear in a trap with no notification. This was back in the 2D version though, but the archived wiki concurs with the new wiki about goblin thieves avoiding traps.
I believe I recall kobold thieves also getting caught in traps back in the 2D version (perhaps only after being spotted?), but I wouldn't swear on it.

Also, as a side note, kobolds do not have the "trapavoid" tag in their raw file definition. Thieves could be a special case, to be sure.

Anyway, if it is indeed a bug, it is noted and has an example save available for it.
If on the other hand it is intended behavior, it will be good to have confirmation from Toady that they can indeed avoid your traps no matter if they've been spotted or not.

[Donkringel]

I had the same happen to my tame wolves. I set the meeting area in a slew of traps, and the enemies would die at a rate of about one per season, with 100+ animals and idling peasants. So its rare, but possible.

[Crafty Barnardo]

Thieves whether goblin or kobold never trigger traps as far as I know.  
As for the dogs, I have had them set off traps while attacking an intruder as well, so that seems to have something to do with it.  

It might not be a bug.  Maybe, in the heat of battle, they forget where the traps are?  Of course, how you teach a dog (or any other animal) how to avoid a trap in the first place is a different matter...

[JustinKace]

I've only recently installed stone fall traps in my latest wee fortress and have had 3 of my poor doggies squished by them in the last ten minutes. It's a bit sad really, as they were all (the only) veterans of 'The Great Cyclops Attack of Early '51'.  

There were no kobolds. I haven't even had any kobold attacks at this stage of the game.

[zagibu]

quote:Originally posted by Crafty Barnardo:
<STRONG>Thieves whether goblin or kobold never trigger traps as far as I know.  
</STRONG>

I think goblin thieves do. They used to trigger weapon traps in 33g.

[Silveron]

My experience is that kobolds never trigger anything.
Goblin thieves will trigger cage traps while sneaking.
Goblin thieves once exposed are vulnerable to the other trap types.

[Footkerchief]

quote:Originally posted by Silveron:
<STRONG>My experience is that kobolds never trigger anything.
Goblin thieves will trigger cage traps while sneaking.
Goblin thieves once exposed are vulnerable to the other trap types.</STRONG>

I just got a goblin thief corpse appear seemingly at random in a weapon trap (dead, naturally).

e: oops, turns out it was actually a sneaking ambusher, and he brought friends!

[ March 12, 2008: Message edited by: Footkerchief ]

[Crafty Barnardo]

quote:Originally posted by zagibu:
<STRONG>I think goblin thieves do. They used to trigger weapon traps in 33g.</STRONG>

Yeah, right after I posted that, I caught three goblin thieves in some cage traps.  It seems strange, though, that one kind of thief would trigger a trap and another wouldn't.  Is it because kobolds are smaller, or are they just better at sneaking around?