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[Jelle]

Huh what's wrong with that discussion? That it gets people angry isn't so much the problem as people getting angry over it in my opinion, it's rather childish.

[piecewise]

You want Criticisms? Ok.

hearts for health from Legend of Zelda

Yeah, because no other games in the history of forever used hearts as their health meter. It's not like he might have chosen hearts for heath because it harkens back to the early 8-bit days in the same way the pixel graphics do. Obviously, he just stole it from zelda to be mean. Come on man, thats a stretch and you know it.

Content: Barely any

Questionable statement at best. Certainly it's not as deep as DF, but does it need to be? Do we say that games like Sonic or Zelda have barely any content simply because they're relatively simple in design? The question isn't one of "which is more complex" rather one of "does it use the content it has effectively?" Minecraft works just fine and allows for a great deal of variation and creative freedom as it is, and future updates will only enhance that. Just because it isn't the game you want it to be does not mean it isn't using its content effectively. I could make an equally facetious argument about df by complaining that its adventure mode isn't up to normal roguelike snuff in terms of dungeon crawling.

Let’s put it this way: What do you do in Minecraft? Dig and build. What do you do in Dwarf Fortress? Dig and build

Over simplification is fun huh? What do you do in Halo? Shoot aliens with guns. What do you do in starcraft? Shoot aliens with guns. The fact that the mechanics by which this is done are completely and totally different, not to mention the differences in presentation, tone, gameplay, and pretty much every other aspect of the game, makes no difference because they have one aspect in common. See also WoW and Fable (killing monsters, taking quests), Beerfest and schindler's list (both take place in Germany), Doctor Who and Bill and ted's excellent adventure (Time traveling phone booth), and so on and so forth.

“Infiniminer is the game Minecraft is based upon.” - minecraftwiki.net

So basically, he made a game about another game. That’s the purest form of plagiarism I’ve ever seen in my life

No, it's not a game about another game. It's a game that has one aspect of it's design (block based, quantized terrain) modeled after another.  I'm guessing you never played infiniminer, but let me tell you, it had very little in common with minecraft beyond the terrain as blocks thing. Infiniminer was a competitive, team based game in which players attempted to gain points by digging out precious metals. It was very sparse in design, tiny in scale and abandoned a little over a month after it's initial release. It was practically a tech demo more then a game, a showing of a basic concept rather then a fully realized use of it. Notch took this one concept, that of block based, deformable terrain, and expanded upon it in a completely different way then what infiniminer did. Calling this plagiarism is like me saying df plagiarized Rouge because it took concepts such as random/procedural generation and permadeath from it. Sure, things have changed as far as gameplay mechanics, but procedural generation and permadeath are still there, and thats the point, right?

"Game design wise, it’s considered very lazy to have a hp/mp system in a game (see: about 97% of all the RPG’s). You could at least TRY to add some innovation. Again, that was my point"

What? No really, What? Having a health system is lazy? Well, let me just go tell...pretty much every game in the world. I really don't know your rational here, but it comes off as "Df doesn't have a health bar and minecraft does, so minecraft sucks."

sick and tired of seeing the same low texture blocks over and over again

People in ascii houses shouldn't throw stones when it comes to graphics.

You could at least TRY to add some innovation

Do me a favor, go find me a game like minecraft that came out before minecraft did. That is to say, a first person survival/exploration game that revolves around gathering resources, battling monsters and building things in a block based world. Go on, I'll wait.


I could keep going but I think this is good for now.

[Jemeni]

Personally I think that they are both great games. (yea I'm the guy wanting to make a DF mod for MC)

But I'm coming to realize that it isn't so much what the game is, but rather the community and how everybody effects everybody else.
Think about it. Would Noble killing be as fun if there wasn't any way to show it off. How about all of the crazy contraptions that everybody tries to develop.

Each game has its own following and I honestly am starting to think that the games(DF more specifically) are so much fun because of the community, not the actual gameplay because of how the players show things off and well have fun with each other.

[dragonshardz]

Personally I think that they are both great games. (yea I'm the guy wanting to make a DF mod for MC)

But I'm coming to realize that it isn't so much what the game is, but rather the community and how everybody effects everybody else.
Think about it. Would Noble killing be as fun if there wasn't any way to show it off. How about all of the crazy contraptions that everybody tries to develop.

Each game has its own following and I honestly am starting to think that the games(DF more specifically) are so much fun because of the community, not the actual gameplay because of how the players show things off and well have fun with each other.

Actually. The Minecraft community is generally pretty terrible and really entitled.

[Draco18s]

All of the things you brought up have been discussed in greater detail in the blog.

I'm not going to bother reading your blog to find the discussion, largely because said discussion has no bearing on a comparison between two unrelated games. 

[Capntastic]

Actually. The Minecraft community is generally pretty terrible and really entitled.

So along with this and the "one of these games has a smart community and one of these games doesn't" comment, are you just trying to be smug and inflammatory without actually having anything concrete to back you up?

[dragonshardz]

Actually. The Minecraft community is generally pretty terrible and really entitled.

So along with this and the "one of these games has a smart community and one of these games doesn't" comment, are you just trying to be smug and inflammatory without actually having anything concrete to back you up?

Ah, there we go, someone took offense.

No, actually, I'm not trying to be smug and inflammatory. Go look at the Minecraft forums and tell me that 90% of those players aren't entitled or just generally terrible.

[Capntastic]

I don't think responding to a dumb comment you made and immediately tried to justify by predicting that someone would call you out on it is 'taking offense'.

As for going to the Minecraft forums to prove they're dumb, you made the assertion, you do the legwork.

[PrimusRibbus]

Neither the DF or Minecraft communities have great reputations.

MC's community is viewed as angry, entitled, and immature. DF's community is viewed as exceedingly elitist, asperger's-filled, and very hostile to diverging viewpoints.

Incidentally, we've been fighting that perception for years, which is why some people likely took issue with the blog posts.

[Lysabild]

Neither the DF or Minecraft communities have great reputations.

MC's community is viewed as angry, entitled, and immature. DF's community is viewed as exceedingly elitist, asperger's-filled, and very hostile to diverging viewpoints.

Incidentally, we've been fighting that perception for years, which is why some people likely took issue with the blog posts.

This is very true.

It can be really aggrevating reading through this forum too.

[Capntastic]

This is very true.

It can be really aggrevating reading through this forum too.

Yeah, read through this thread about the NYT article that runs the gamut of typical praise and pride in the project, and then people talking down to Toady about his soda habits and arguing about how many years he's taking off his life, etc.  People talking about if he should try dating, and all of that.  I'm not convinced that the latter stuff, which ended up delving into mail order brides before Toady had to step in, was in good taste, if indeed it was entirely joking. 

So yes, trying to paint the Minecraft community as immature and entitled is completely ridiculous when a thread about Toady being in the NYT can't even be a gleaming mirror of the community's supposed superior nature.

[Lysabild]

This is very true.

It can be really aggrevating reading through this forum too.

Yeah, read through this thread about the NYT article that runs the gamut of typical praise and pride in the project, and then people talking down to Toady about his soda habits and arguing about how many years he's taking off his life, etc.  People talking about if he should try dating, and all of that.  I'm not convinced that the latter stuff, which ended up delving into mail order brides before Toady had to step in, was in good taste, if indeed it was entirely joking. 

So yes, trying to paint the Minecraft community as immature and entitled is completely ridiculous when a thread about Toady being in the NYT can't even be a gleaming mirror of the community's supposed superior nature.

Personally, I read the article, loved it, and steered around the thread. Theres a lot of irritations for me both on the upper and lower forums, spam of either "MAGMA MAGMA MAGMA AM I FUNNY NOW?" and "ALL WOMEN ARE TERRORIZED BY ALL MEN, WHITE SKIN IS EVIL."

Totally could use some more brain and wit, but eh, the internet is the internet, even here.

[Capntastic]

I'm really just wondering why people on either side are entertaining the OP's whims to stir up trouble and link his blog to both sides of the 'argument'.  It's fairly transparent, and considering far more innocuous posts get vilified as spambots, perplexing to say the least.

[piecewise]

As for going to the Minecraft forums to prove they're dumb, you made the assertion, you do the legwork.

(imagine a nice upbeat chiptune as you read these and it becomes kinda funny actually, I recommend this one)

80% of the modders on this forum are more dedicated to his game than he is, and that he should start paying them instead of spending the money on VACATION VACATION VACATION VACATIONS

You know what I would do with millions dollars, a half-finished game, and a million players having bought my game with potentially millions more waiting for the finished product?

 I would stop working on my other 'project'.
 I would get to work on the game that made me a millionaire in the first place, giving everyone a decent weekly update every Friday with more blocks, more depth, more bug fixes.

I'm glad this is finally starting to sink in. Notch is probably going to release 1 or 2 more updates like the Note Blocks/Dispensers update and then release the API, and then be finished with developing Minecraft.
 Why am I glad? Because I won't make the mistake of buying a Mojang product again; especially if this "business ethic" of eat, sleep, play video games, vacation, and write a line of code continues

In 6 months he will have:

 1) Gambled away all his money in Las Vegas after a recently acquired gambling addiction.
 2) Spent company money on personal goods.
 3) Gone bankrupt.
 4) Lose Minecraft because a third party developed a clone with better quality, performance and support. All because Notch got lazy and stopped innovating
 5) Commited Suicide

 On top of this, we all get to watch the Discovery Channel documentary: Minecraft, where did it go wrong?

Then hes all like at the end of the week: "oh yh i gotta do an update for Minecraft. Oh well i'll add this line of code... maybe this line... finished! Let's get back to being a lazy ass"

Notch really needs to get his stuff together, all he does is vacation and play games.

I bought this game and I expected more from him, but I guess he'll just add in a new mob, slap "finished" onto it, and work on his other project.

He's probably laughing manically and bragging to Sony about how he's way better at getting money from a bait-and-switch.

I think the saddest thing about this thread is that Notch isn't going to listen to a damn word of it. He'll write us off as trolls and keep doing what he is doing.

Notch.
 Work gets done.
 Choose 1.

"When we release a pure bugfix update, people get VERY upset ("NOTHING CHANGED!").. Adding features gives us much happier users. But I do realize that it's only happier users in the short term." --notch

Etc, etc, etc.

[sonerohi]

Minecraft community and DF community seem extremely similar. Draw what you will from that.