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[Encyclopath]

For most workshops, I find the material ingredients to be far too simple. I'd like to modify them all to be more along the lines of the Forge, or Dyer's shop, and require multiple (3-6) components to construct, ie:

Kitchen: 3 stone/logs/bars/, carving knife/fork, large pot, 2 jugs, table, chest

To take it one step further, I'd some of these components to be new items I would add, i.e.:

Carpenter's Shop: 3 stone/logs/bars/, wood saws, carpentry hammer, lathe
Jeweler's workshop:  3 stone/logs/bars/ , monocle, calipers, jeweler's saws, lapidary
Mason's workshop: 3 stone/logs/bars, Stone mallet, chisel set

With this sort of setup, one will either need to embark with tools they'll need to construct workshops they need immediately, or manufacture them en sito in a tiered fashion :
Tier 0: rock hammers, bone saws, stone knifes, etc would be "tier 0" tools that could be assembled from hunting and gathering tasks.
Tier 1 shops (kilns, furnaces, tanners, butcher, fishery) could be assembled using tier 0 tools, which in turn could produce tier 1 tools: ceramic jugs and pots, anvils, needles, sinew
At this stage, tier 2 shops could be built: (kitchen, leatherworkers, carpenter, ashery, masons forge,) that produce more advanced tier 2 tools and components like spinning wheels, looms, tables, chests, chisels, augers, saws, shears, pliers, barrels, buckets, bins...
Those tier 2 components would be needed to build more advanced and complex tier 3 shops that require well crafted tools ( mechanics, millstone/quern, craftdwaft workshop, clothiers, still, farmers shop, loom, dyers shop
Finally, the highest tier 4 shops would require the products of possibly all tiers beneath to be built (bowyers, screw press, siege workshop, jewelers shop, soapers

I'm sure some of the dependancies and ordering will need to be swapped around for the sake of realism and balance, but I hope you get the idea.

The game as is lets you show up in the woods, chop down a tree, and construct complicated workshops that fabricate fancy jewelry and machines. It's too easy I think.

Basically, I want to make it feel like more of a struggle to start out with stone age technology (if you choose to be so unprepared at embark), and progress through bronze age, iron age... up to a crude industrial capability in a series of evolving stages. I want to feel like building the first forge is a milestone for your fort, and feel accomplished when I manage to finally build that much needed craftsdwarf shop so we can finally start turning a profit, and smile when I at last have achieved the capability to work with those valuable gems I've been digging up. When I can finally build that mechanics shop, I'll have harnessed the technology which, like magic, can link levers and pressure plates to do all sorts of wonderful things unimaginable to your 7 original settlers, who arrived in rags with spears and rocks.



So....

1. how can I change the materials required for building each workshop?

2. How can I add new items to the game (suppose that they'd all fall into the "tools" category)?

3. How can I add reactions to different workshops to create those new tools?

4. Any other input or comments?

[jaxy15]

You can't mod any workshop but the screw press and soap maker's workshop.

[Encyclopath]

 

Really? So, should I move this to the Suggestions forum then?

[Sphalerite]

You can't mod the existing workshops, but you can create new workshops to replace them.  You'll need to create custom reactions that use those workshops to reproduce all the operations that could normally be done at the existing workshops.  Then you can edit the dwarf entity file and disable use of the default workshops, allowing only use of your harder to make workshops instead.

ETA:  Actually, this won't work.   Most of the basic workshops aren't specifically permitted in the entity files at all.  The jobs are, but the only workshops that need to be specifically enabled and are therefore moddable are the screw press and soap maker's workshop.  Basically, what jaxy15 said.

[Pan]

On the subject of realism, I've always wondered as well,  Encyclopath. But there's just nothing to be done about it. You'll have better luck suggesting this than modding.

EDIT: Ah, just noticed that you said you are going to suggest it.

[narhiril]

This is the part where I shamelessly promote my own mod. 

While it doesn't change the base workshops, Legends of Forlorn Realms uses the principles you mentioned for a vast number of its features, including a currently four-tiered mechanical tech tree, with a parallel "ritual" tree also in development.  As you progress on the mechanical tech tree, new possibilities open up - first "advanced mechanisms" for the construction of training workshops, then slabs and tools for constructing workshops for experimental materials, weapons, armor, and new sources of fuel.  Though still a work in progress, all of the aforementioned features are fully developed and tested, with more content being released every couple of weeks.

Of course, LFR is a major modification, meaning that you'll get the full compliment of new races, creatures, megabeasts, minerals, plants, custom lore, and so on, which I realize may not be appealing to everyone.  However, if you're looking for a "tiered" system of workshops that resembles your suggestion, I believe I've got the closest thing to it right now, which I hope can at least provide you with some enjoyment or some RAW framework for your own endeavors.

[TehNoob]

I was going to promote LFR when I saw the tiered workshop thingy. 

[Mechanixm]

I agree with you in theory and for the flavor of the game.

However, my testing has shown that the more ingredients it takes to build your (custom) workshops, the laggier those workshops become as your FPS drops.

FPS is king, so keep your workshop buildmats to one item, in my humble opinion.

[Kweri]

I agree with you in theory and for the flavor of the game.

However, my testing has shown that the more ingredients it takes to build your (custom) workshops, the laggier those workshops become as your FPS drops.

FPS is king, so keep your workshop buildmats to one item, in my humble opinion.

I'd like to hear about what testing you did to get these results and what exactly the results were. First I've heard of this.

[Tryntu]

I agree with you in theory and for the flavor of the game.

However, my testing has shown that the more ingredients it takes to build your (custom) workshops, the laggier those workshops become as your FPS drops.

FPS is king, so keep your workshop buildmats to one item, in my humble opinion.

custom workshops and reactions. make each custom workshop require one 'Unbuilt Workshop' (possible quality?) and have a 5x5 workshop be a builder's shop (using the architect skill perhaps?).

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

I agree with you in theory and for the flavor of the game.

However, my testing has shown that the more ingredients it takes to build your (custom) workshops, the laggier those workshops become as your FPS drops.

FPS is king, so keep your workshop buildmats to one item, in my humble opinion.

custom workshops and reactions. make each custom workshop require one 'Unbuilt Workshop' (possible quality?) and have a 5x5 workshop be a builder's shop (using the architect skill perhaps?).

I have this similar creation in my mod, Altho it's still a work in progress. But the Major building that requires a 'unbuilt' version of its self is the Mineshaft. I will do this for the ToR in the future as seeing:
Gabbro {B]
Basalt {B]
Basalt {B]
Bauxite {B]
...

so on and so forth I'd rather see:
Temple of Regeneration Assembly {B]
 
that way I don't need to scroll down through the list of build mats just to see the products

[Mechanixm]

I agree with you in theory and for the flavor of the game.

However, my testing has shown that the more ingredients it takes to build your (custom) workshops, the laggier those workshops become as your FPS drops.

FPS is king, so keep your workshop buildmats to one item, in my humble opinion.

I'd like to hear about what testing you did to get these results and what exactly the results were. First I've heard of this.

By "lag" I mean when I am in Query Mode (I pressed q to highlight workshops and what not) and depending on how many building materials that workshop took to create, the longer the yellow X would hang on that workshop before the screen would update.  It's like the query X would jump around or you would get that feeling like it was stuck in the mud and not keeping up.  I would be hitting the left arrow and go "UGH!  I accidentally got too close to that workshop."

My mod has several custom workshops.  Once I started noticing the lag, I picked three of my custom workshops and made 9 iterations of each one following this format.

Workshop1- 1xBoulder (Control)

Workshop2-1xBuldMat1
Workshop3-2xBuldMat1
Workshop4-3xBuldMat1
Workshop5-4xBuldMat1

Workshop6-1xBuldMat2
Workshop7-1xBuldMat2+1xBulidMat3
Workshop8-1xBuldMat2+1xBulidMat3+1xBulidMat4
Workshop9-1xBuldMat2+1xBulidMat3+1xBulidMat4+1xBulidMat5

All of the custom workshops that only had a single building material, didn't lag at all when they were queried once the fortress got up to the point where FPS was becoming an issue.  They functioned just as quickly as any of the default workshops.  Up until that point, they all queried pretty much instantly.

As my FPS began to plummet, the workshops that had more and more buildmats lagged more than the workshops with fewer build mats when queried.  I can't give exact measurements, but I can feel the difference in my head between a tenth of a second and 2.5 tenths of a second.  Also, there seemed to be a limit to the lag.  No matter how bad the FPS got, the building query lag would remain constant.

Workshops with 2 buldmats queried faster than workshops with 3 buildmats which queried faster than workshops with 4 buildmats.  The build mat itself didn't seem to hinder querying.  2 cabinets queried just as fast as two boulders.

I found that annoying, so now all of my custom workshops require one build mat.  Form wins over Flavor on this one.

Note:  This lag might just be an anomaly of my computer.  I'm running the game on an Intel Core two duo E6600.  If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be willing to test them.

tl:dr  Workshop query lag...potentially my own personal bigfoot.

[Tryntu]

so now that i'm not under the effects of the condition XXFood PoisoningXX, lemme flesh out my idea further. mainly because i think it's absolutely badass and might teach myself modding just to implement it and put it on the suggestions forum.

first off, i like this idea, 100%. making a full carpenter's shop out of a block of rock, to me (a carpenter), is herpderp. so i propose the following.

New Workshops (names are terribad, one of my many weak points): Basic (Architect's/Construction/Prefabrication) Workshop, Intermediate " ", Advanced " ", Specialised " ". basic ones take basic mats, like we have now - a few blocks of stone, wood, glass, elf bones, whatever. this would give us the ability to make a certain Tier of Prefab'd Shop, such as a Basic* Mason's shop. in addition, you'd be able to prefab the next tier shop with it. so on and so forth.

*another idea i had: currently, one workshop fits all. but it is a firm belief of mine that no matter what you do in life, the better tools you have, the more effective you are. therefore, i propose multiple levels of the same workshop. i.e.: A basic mason's shop from a basic prefabbing shop, which has very low chances of producing legendary anything, and cant produce some of the more complicated/artsy/whatever stuff. then an intermediate mason's shop, which has a fair chance at legendaries, and can get into the more complex stuff. advanced, same trend. (not thinking of code-able mechanics here) Specialised you could even forcibly restrict from dwarves of a certain skill-level - say anyone adept or worse is unable to use it at all.

i dont mean to threadjack, but your idea spawned mine. >.>