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Author Topic: How do mines work?  (Read 8955 times)

Shoku

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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2011, 01:17:11 am »

Those three images do not display.
That little animation in the video was nice though.

The term adit worked much better in search engines.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 01:58:17 am by Shoku »
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counting

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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2011, 04:01:10 am »

Those three images do not display.
That little animation in the video was nice though.

The term adit worked much better in search engines.

It works fine for me, but I reupload them to a more stable image host anyway. (Probably it's the great china firewall to blame. 8) JK). And I added the translations in the picture too. And it's quite difficult to translate phrases directly. I think ancient Chinese engineers independently developed similar techniques with western counter part and use their own terms, so sometimes I'll have to read a lot about how western sources describe their mine before I can translate. I also find the modern term for it as drift mining.

In my search for ancient China mines, I also being curious about if there are also ancient mines in Taiwan. And I come up with some surprising results, as I thought being isolated in an island the native should be less advanced and hard to find proper ancient mines. But surprisingly I do find them, and it has something to do with placer deposit. Since Taiwan Island is essentially formed with sedimentary processes and raised up with tectonics activity with volcanoes. Taiwan is actually a nice little island for strip and open mining. And more surprisingly that most of it happened near Taipei, which is the capital city and no mining at present day. There are industrial activities even date back beyond 3000 years. And interestingly it's linked to the production of "shells" (Cypraea moneta used as ancient money through out China, even found as far as inland Szechuan province. But only produced in tropical area near ocean, Taiwan is one of the production site near mainland China). I wonder if there is any connection that when producing shells transformed into producing bronze and copper coinages is because shells are actually "mined" from placer deposit near water as well. Producing huge quantity of shells is not like picking up random shells on the beach, it's actually a massive industrial activities with digging up thousands of years' deposit shells, and it can be exhausted easier than mines. I wonder if that's why shells become obsolete as currency when it's deposit reduced, and can not sustain the quantity required to be a common exchange. Like the metal coinages can not catch up the growing needs of monetary exchanges thus giving birth to fiat money.

I wonder if mining techniques are not originally meant for mining (metal) purpose (or for a quarry). But developed for other usage as well. Like digging up well, which is for discovering water, and in Chinese we still used the word "mineral well" to describe vertical shaft (礦井). And using word as 平硐 to describe adit. (which is level "stone cave" or the ancient word for a mine). And using words like 礦坑, which is mineral cave/hole but as more modern usage to mean a mine.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 04:58:26 am by counting »
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Shoku

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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2011, 10:45:33 am »

The new images display well enough.

So is a blind shaft vertical but not open to the surface?
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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2011, 11:04:39 am »

The new images display well enough.

So is a blind shaft vertical but not open to the surface?

Ya, kind of the inverse-galleries in adit. Instead of branching out horizontally as galleries in vertical-shaft system, they branch out vertically in horizontal-level shaft. Since there is no way out, so it's "blind". 盲 in Chinese has the implied meaning of dead, and can't see (it's shape is literally "dead" above + "eye" below = "blind"), so here it describes the property of dead-end, and a vertical "well" hidden in the dark.

On a separate note :
I remembered that I was always baffled about a property described by the traditional Chinese 5 elements/agents (Mental, Wood, Water, Fire, Earth/Dirt) theory. It says that Mental can generate Water, but it hardly makes much sense. But if the ancient engineers observed that when dig deep enough in a mine, you can find good metal, but the underground water will pour in from the wall where mental vain resigned. They would get the false impression that it's the Mental "generating" Water. So if you want to dig a well, it's good to find a mineral rich location (not scientific sound actually). Combined with the fact that sedimentary process happens where water flows generating a rich placer deposit, it's easy to misinterpreted the association if you don't understand the science behind it. (Water->Mental becomes Mental->Water), . Also the Earth/Dirt can be used to against Water, it's probably also associate with the things observed in the mine.

Although the philosophical 5 elements/agents is different from the actual things but more of a abstract property, however it must has a natural reason/foundation for it to sound like a solid theory.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 11:28:58 am by counting »
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Currency is not excessive, but a necessity.
The stark assumption:
Individuals trade with each other only through the intermediation of specialist traders called: shops.
Nelson and Winter:
The challenge to an evolutionary formation is this: it must provide an analysis that at least comes close to matching the power of the neoclassical theory to predict and illuminate the macro-economic patterns of growth

Tellemurius

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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2011, 11:14:00 am »

Quote
Well I haven't actually seen any explicit description of how a gallery runs through veins. If there is evidence of several veins of desired material do you send out shafts after each one? Mine one out then start a shaft at whatever point is close to the next? Send out numerous shafts in parallel? Judging by longwall mining people don't ever quite do a grid but if I interpreted the pictures correctly they like to make two galleries next to each other (one way traffic?) with periodic access punched between them.

It seems at least that they never mined completely blind but aside from retreat mining how do you get at material that's past the walls of the gallery? I assume that making them too wide risks a collapse and obviously there are at least some materials distributed in a way that's wider than you would want to make the gallery.
Well before we start blasting off shafts we start mapping out the possible vein. First we study surrounding rock to see what was the type of transformation the area was affected with. Then if you are looking for crystals, search for ancient water bedrock. For mapping we are using 3-d grid with shafts that are mined horizontally with each preceding diagonally.

Shoku

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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2011, 11:20:16 am »

Diagonal how?
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Tellemurius

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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2011, 11:25:05 am »

uhh lets see......

crappy ascii mapping via 2-d

------------------------
xxxxxxxxx-------------------
-------xxxxxxxxooo--------------
---------------ooo-----------
---------------oooxxxxx----------
----------------------xxxxxxxooo-------
-----------------------------ooo-----
-----------------------------oooxxxx----

o shaft
x path
- rock layer

something like that, we do mining by the side of the vein.

Shoku

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Re: How do mines work?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2011, 11:56:11 am »

So a little horizontal a little vertical, however the vein goes?
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