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[TolyK]

Oh and TolyK for being incredibly passive.

... ookay?
Any questions though? Or just a "policy vote"?
Sadly I can't find any meat that others haven't eaten yet ().

[webadict]

That's an excuse to do nothing, and you know it.

[NUKE9.13]

Awesome, that's everyone back again.

Unvote. I don't think Orangebottle is scum anymore, haven't for a while, but wanted to see how others reacted to the debate first.

NUKE9.13: Why do you keep insisting on people making a decision about who's right and wrong in your debate with Orangebottle? Why is it your #1 go-to question for everyone? Hounding people to make a decision right away and draw them away from their own trains of thought is an awfully scummy thing to do. What information could it give you about the scumminess of others?

Nyahaha. Gotcha.
I ask because how people react to this is a thing. It tells me how they play and how they are thinking. For example, I now know that TolyK is an analytical type, Darvi is a sensible type, Simple is a... simple type, and you are an avoiding-the-question type. Now, apart from the last this doesn't tell me -that- much about their alignment, but as I haven't played in a while I had no idea what each of your playstyles was, so I asked the question to find out. I also hoped that someone might subtly use the question as an excuse to buddy up to the 'winning' side, which unfortunately hasn't happened (everyone else has been fairly neutral in their answers, and you haven't answered the question), but could have, and obviously that would have been fairly incriminating. And then there's just the fact that any serious discussion helps find scum.

Which is why, I believe, you chose to avoid it. Am I right?

[Toaster]

Webadict has replaced Firelordsky.


Vote Count:

Darvi: 
Think0028: 
Mr.Person: 
Orangebottle:  Darvi
Dariush:  Mr.Person
NUKE9.13:  Orangebottle, Dariush, Think0028
Simple: 
Max White: 
Webadict: 
TolyK:  Webadict

Not Voting:  Simple, Max White, TolyK, NUKE9.13

Day 1 will last until Tuesday 8/30 at 11 PM EST.


Thanks, replacements!

[Dariush]

Unvote. I don't think Orangebottle is scum anymore, haven't for a while, but wanted to see how others reacted to the debate first.

W-w-w-hh... B-b-b-bbut...

Okay, you just exceeded all possible marks for scumminess. This is you caving under pressure, which you vainly attempt to mask under 'Just As Planned' all-knowingness. Your whole play was just one insanely massive scumslip, embellished with attempts to cover it up. People accuse you of overdefending and you claim it is your playstyle. You ask pointless questions and after being pressed you claim it was to 'learn how people react'. The pressure on you finally gets unbearable, you break and claim that you didn't really suspect OB (whom you so aggressively pushed for the whole game) without (obviously) providing any reasons. And just as a cherry on top of the cake, you ignored the (intentional) lack of my response to your WoT, which proves you really wasn't interested in it and just want to be left alone to glide quietly through the day.

[NUKE9.13]

Unvote. I don't think Orangebottle is scum anymore, haven't for a while, but wanted to see how others reacted to the debate first.

W-w-w-hh... B-b-b-bbut...

Okay, you just exceeded all possible marks for scumminess. This is you caving under pressure, which you vainly attempt to mask under 'Just As Planned' all-knowingness. Your whole play was just one insanely massive scumslip, embellished with attempts to cover it up. People accuse you of overdefending and you claim it is your playstyle. You ask pointless questions and after being pressed you claim it was to 'learn how people react'. The pressure on you finally gets unbearable, you break and claim that you didn't really suspect OB (whom you so aggressively pushed for the whole game) without (obviously) providing any reasons. And just as a cherry on top of the cake, you ignored the (intentional) lack of my response to your WoT, which proves you really wasn't interested in it and just want to be left alone to glide quietly through the day.

If you are not scum I will be exceedingly disappointed in you. If you are, I will merely be very disappointed.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING

1)Caving under pressure? See, I can emphasize with this. This isn't too hard of a mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless. Admitting you are wrong is not a scumtell. If we all stuck to our guns come what may, nothing would ever be achieved. Think about that for a moment.

2)When was I accused of overdefending? Are you confusing this game with another? I think you are.

3)They weren't pointless. Do you honestly think that nobodies reactions tell you anything about them? And I could hardly specify why I was asking the questions before they were answered now, could I?

4)Can you, actually, read? I'm starting to think you can't. I haven't thought Orangebottle was scum for a while. Not ever since I started attacking him. Basically since I started asking people who they thought was right, I was planning to unvote Orangebottle after they had answered. Had I done so earlier, people's reactions would not have been the same; they would have known the answer I 'wanted' to hear was "neither of you".

5)Fair enough, I haven't explicitly stated reasons as to why I changed my mind. Basically, his reactions to me have generally seemed townish, and inexperience could explain his mess up in the RVS.

6)WHAT. THE. FUCK. YOUR INTENTIONAL LACK OF RESPONSE? YOU SCUM BASTARD. YOU REPLY AT ONCE OR SO HELP ME GOD I WILL NOT REST UNTIL YOUR CORPSE HAS BEEN RIPPED TO PIECES AND DISTRIBUTED TO ALL FOUR CORNERS OF THE GLOBE.
To be clear I had assumed you simply didn't have the time, and your previous post was just you dropping in briefly.

[Mr.Person]

Sure, joking. Only two people got the joke (out of whom one was Nuke himself), but he was joking nevertheless.

That's suspiciously detailed point-by-point defend against an attack not made against you. Did you get a chainsaw as your starting item? Or do you simply know something about Nuke we don't?

Bullshit. This is beyond stupid. You state my attack is scummy because I'm using your buillshit arguments against NUKE. Yet you don't dispel it in the simplest manner possible: prove your argument isn't bullshit. That's what this is about. It's not about NUKE, it's not about me, it's about you and your shitty arguments. Why is NUKE scum? Why is his argument bullshit? Be VERY FUCKING SPECIFIC because your previous posts were not good enough.

Is NUKE scum? I'd say probably not just based on the fact you are, although I very much dislike his "choose between me and Orangebottle", doubly so because he's claiming he didn't think either of the two are scum. This causes everybody to focus on what he thinks are two townies. That's retarded, we should be focusing on who the scum are rather than the townies.

[Orangebottle]

Unvote. I don't think Orangebottle is scum anymore, haven't for a while, but wanted to see how others reacted to the debate first.

....
I asked you for your best NUKE. If that is your best, I am extremely disappointed. If you really thought I was a townie, why did you keep flinging shit at me?

[Max White]

Max: Why are you trying to insinuate that I am any good?

Because somebody needs to be nice you, or you will have no friends at all. 
But seriously, what is with you guys? I thought you were all pretty good, and you won the first RL mafia, if I recall, didn't you Darvi?

Max White: I don't buy your "all aaccordign to plan" motive. If that was your real reason to do what you did you were very inconsistent about it.Why you needed to clarify you were looking for scum lynch few times? I thought it should be obvious goal for town players.And unless your plan preemtively assumed that you knew what orangebottle reaction will be it would be pretty easy to accuse him in convenient moment or go after after someone else without need to back off and make excuses.And how the hell making him accuse himself was part of "bait plan" ? If it was meant only to look for people who would egearly join in, why would you use one way of accusation that's basically lazy scum calling card ?How would you know that your attack is enough to bait someone into following if you were not voting ? I would like some serious follow up of that rather than another mild nitpicking.

Inconsistent? Where? Do you mean the bit where I was attacking Orange then not? That was to make somebody think I was willing to go to lynch with Orange. I don't see what you mean with this.
I needed to clarify I was looking to lynch scum as a response to Orange. If you want to put pressure on somebody, you can't let him casually bring up counter points and have them go unnoticed, you need to be all over their game. Although more importantly, it was a pretty cool quote, I wish I had sun glasses to put on at the time.
I didn't know how Orange was going to react, but if things went south it meant I would have found scum, so win for me! And if he held he's ground significantly better, to the state where he wouldn't have gotten a bandwagon, then I move onto something else.
Making him accuse himself wasn't part of the plan, it just happened. Showing a lot of pressure and seeing what happens was the plan. I wish I was that good that I could consistently make people accuse themselves!
I didn't know if my attack would be enough to get somebody on the bandwagon, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try.

Also, mild nitpicking? What are you talking about?

4)Can you, actually, read? I'm starting to think you can't. I haven't thought Orangebottle was scum for a while. Not ever since I started attacking him. Basically since I started asking people who they thought was right, I was planning to unvote Orangebottle after they had answered. Had I done so earlier, people's reactions would not have been the same; they would have known the answer I 'wanted' to hear was "neither of you".

Why are is it important what other people think is right, Nuke? Isn't it your job to convince people that your right, rather than just follow popular opinion?
What would you have done if the majority of people had strongly agreed with you?
What about if people had strongly disagreed with you?


I also dislike how you are trying to split the town with your 'Nuke vs. Orange' debate. No, there is no Nuke vs Orange, there is Orange and everything he does, you and everything you do, and everybody else and everything they do. You could both be wrong, hell you could both be right! The only way you can be sure that such a divide exists is if you were scum.

You have also been some what inconsistent with your view.

The reason I maintain my vote on Orangebottle now is because whilst it is possible that his actions stemmed from inexperience, the possibility remains that they stemmed from him being scum instead.

Unvote. I don't think Orangebottle is scum anymore, haven't for a while, but wanted to see how others reacted to the debate first.

Haven't for a while?
Yes, you are allowed to change your mind, but the backtracking here shows that you were either lying then, or now. With only your word to go off, I'm going to assume your lying now.

[Simple]

Nuke9.13: While i understand how that that the Orange.vs.Nuke question could be a probing for play style i don't get why this needed building a pressure on someone you find to be town for so long. Even if that was to conceal your true motives don't you think this will bring more problems than answers ? Especially since in my eyes this question is too much based on current Orange responses , that you probably couldn't predict (unless that's most crazy scum scheme i heard of) , that despite of being town or scum someone could always be convinced that one of you is guilty. And was the fact that you think that orange is town essential for that plan ? Wouldn't it work with someone you don't have clear read on ? If that's possible could you point at what point you changed your mind about orange ?

Dariush: How nuke's onslaught on orange cand be named "quietly gliding trough the day" ? Or you had something else in mind ?

PPE: Max you sneaky ninja. I respond in a moment.

[Max White]

Scroll of ninja poster: Your posts will always intercept Simple.

[Max White]

Your decent at mafia, aren't you TolyK? I thought you were one of the better players out there. Maybe not Jim or vector good, but in there with Darvi and Think at least.
Why would you think is that much better than yourself at scum then?

... wording? I.. don't quite get this question.

Sorry, almost forgot about this. Was late at night, I think I mashed up two different questions. It was 'Who would you think is that much better than yourself at playing as scum then?'

[Simple]

Scroll of ninja poster: Your posts will always intercept Simple.

Noooo! Now i need to get my hand on ring of Max immunity (Hmm is it good for min-maxing ?)

-snip-

Inconsistent? Where? Do you mean the bit where I was attacking Orange then not? That was to make somebody think I was willing to go to lynch with Orange. I don't see what you mean with this.
I needed to clarify I was looking to lynch scum as a response to Orange. If you want to put pressure on somebody, you can't let him casually bring up counter points and have them go unnoticed, you need to be all over their game. Although more importantly, it was a pretty cool quote, I wish I had sun glasses to put on at the time.
I didn't know how Orange was going to react, but if things went south it meant I would have found scum, so win for me! And if he held he's ground significantly better, to the state where he wouldn't have gotten a bandwagon, then I move onto something else.
Making him accuse himself wasn't part of the plan, it just happened. Showing a lot of pressure and seeing what happens was the plan. I wish I was that good that I could consistently make people accuse themselves!
I didn't know if my attack would be enough to get somebody on the bandwagon, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try.

Also, mild nitpicking? What are you talking about?

So if he were not defending himself or drop scumtells , thus telling you he's scum you would build bandwagon that would let his scumbuddies jump on it. Or if he would defend himself accordingly you would drop it. How's that diffrent from scum trying to create bandwagon ? And by mild nitpicking i meant that i have not yet seen any follow-up attack from this plan be it by voting or not. You seemed content with just waiting for something. Well, this post fix this a bit.

[Max White]

So if he were not defending himself or drop scumtells , thus telling you he's scum you would build bandwagon that would let his scumbuddies jump on it. Or if he would defend himself accordingly you would drop it. How's that diffrent from scum trying to create bandwagon ? And by mild nitpicking i meant that i have not yet seen any follow-up attack from this plan be it by voting or not. You seemed content with just waiting for something. Well, this post fix this a bit.

Sentence structure in the first bit there was a little interesting. Umm, I'll hazard a guess here at what you mean.

Firstly, if somebody starts to attract some attention and they were scum, why would their scumbuddies jump on the bandwagon until it was a pretty sure thing, and they needed the bus? Anyway, is there a difference between a townie trying to lynch scum and a scum player trying to make a bandwagon? Apart from the way they go about it, that is. Sure, a player who tries to jump on a bandwagon is scummy, but beyond method to achieve the bandwagon, I don't see how they are distinctly different, so you would need to judge each by their merits.

We hunt scum, that is how we win the game. If we never force a few votes onto somebody, nobody ever gets lynched and the scum win. Townies also make bandwagons, but they do it when a player has been scummy.

Does that answer your question?

Also, no follow up? Dude, I've been prodding at Nuke for a while now. Are we reading the same game? Remember, you can make an attack on somebody even without a vote.

[webadict]

TolyK, you are an incredibly passive scumbag. You do not give any relevant information, which means you're only trying to look like you're active. An example:

Orangebottle: Wow, he's doing very well for his second game (right?)! He got wound up in this firefight with Nuke, had some slips but otherwise good.
Dr. Plutonium (a.k.a. Nuke): Aggressive, but trying to declare Orange's scummitude and his innocence. Not sure if that's good or bad, but... eh.

You: Hey, look at me make comments and then proceed to tell you what they mean! then proceed to take no side in this argument!

You are partially buddying up to Orangebottle here by saying how great he's doing, but then mention that he's had some slips. You don't say anything about what the slips were, if any, but for some reason, it's all good for Orangebottle. Why is that? What are these slips? Why is he good?
On NUKE, I honestly can't tell if you're distancing yourself or buddying with him, because you're calling him Dr. Plutonium. You then proceed to give a very detailed account of NUKE's argument as "trying to declare Orange [as scum]." I was so moved by your description. Oh, and the part where you couldn't tell if NUKE was doing good or bad? You surely create an air of suspense!

Several situations:
 (note: [s ]=scum, [t]=town)
1. Orange[s ] Nuke [t] - possible, but unlikely IMO. means Orange is good at not slipping, while Nuke finds something suspicious and tries to pound his way in.
2. Orange [t] Nuke [s ] - possible. means Orange has nothing to fear and is doing his best, while Nuke is trying to force the tables around.
3. Orange [s ] Nuke [s ] - unlikely IMO, unless possibly Nuke is coordinating this fiasco through scumchat. Risky, but with the current events would make the other neigh invincible if one was lynched.
4. Orange [t] Nuke [t] - quite likely IMO. Two townies flamefighting, while scum is just waiting, or fueling the fight (who can fill the fueling role: Mr. Person, Dariush, Max White (to an extent).)
If 1 is right, then I have the impression Orange is getting help from an experienced player.
If 2 is right, I dunno about the situation.
If 3 is right, then... wow.
If 4 is right above, then most of us should be looking for the scum.

You: Here is my list that I put no actual thinking into. If you notice, I actually have no opinions! It means I couldn't care less about scumhunting!

Seriously, you just listed the 4 possibilities for EVERY SINGLE PAIR OF PLAYERS, and then proceeded to give no opinion on who you thought was scum or town. No, "probably" doesn't count. Everyone is "possibly" town. Everyone "might be" scum. That's the most passive answer ever.

You literally give nothing relevant. You don't say who you think is scum or town out of the pair. You're just letting other people read your restating of the obvious for you, so they can come up with an answer.

Oh, and I lol'd at your "If #4 is right" because it's exactly what you're not doing. Unless you meant yourself in the minority.

So, in this section, I conclude that we should be looking for the other scum
Inactive folks:
Think
Billybobfred
Darvi (partially)

L.
O.
L.

Your conclusion is supported by...

What? You didn't "conclude" anything! You just said we should scumhunt. But, you didn't scumhunt at all! You didn't attempt to determine who was scum or town from the argument. You didn't interpret the data in a way that would give you a feeling one way or another. You CERTAINLY didn't give any opinion on who you thought was scum.

Oh, and then you went for the lurkers.

There is NO possible way that you would do this as town and think it was acceptable. If you can explain how it was acceptable, you lose a vote. But, no, there is no good reason.

Oh and TolyK for being incredibly passive.

... ookay?
Any questions though? Or just a "policy vote"?
Sadly I can't find any meat that others haven't eaten yet ().

I do not policy vote. Or whatever phrase you think you're trying to make up. You're not bothering to search if you can't find anything out there. I mean, look. I analyzed one post and I found scum. EASY AS PIE!