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[Mr.Person]

Biggest FoS for NUKE for not answering my question.

[NUKE9.13]

Biggest FoS for NUKE for not answering my question.

Which question?

[Orangebottle]

0)Completely copying Max's case and saying you have your own, then voting the person with the most votes? It's still scummy. And a lie.

My own suspicions are that you were overly stressed/defensive in a manner suggesting that you were scum.
This is basically the same as what Max was saying. I have never denied this.
This does not preclude it from being valid, and does not preclude me from actually believing it. Why would it?

You called them your own suspicions; that is a lie in itself. They're Max's suspicions. Then again, this is getting into the realm of technicalities.

Also you say 'We', but its really just you versus me here- nothing is stopping the others from continuing on with their scumhunting.

We're going back and forth with walls of questions and answers. It's distracting at best, and it's also diluting the information available to the town. This is preventing, or at least hurting, the scumhunting of the others.

I don't want to go easy on you because you are new, but as MrPerson pointed out, my argument does lose some value if you are inexperienced. Not bad at the game! I can tell you are/will be quite good at this. But there are some things one just has to discover, and you can't have discovered all of those, even in the craziest of beginner mafias.
So yeah. I still think you overreacted to Max's questioning, and by your own insistence, I will still hold you accountable for that. But I do not, cannot, have the same level of suspicion.

As it has been said before, a trial by fire is the best way to learn the game. Go on. Give me your best.
Also, is that buddying I see there? Or am I just seeing things? I'll go with the former.

[Max White]

See: 'not falling for that trap', the analysis of both your actions, which totally did happen (ex: here)

You think not falling for the most obvious trap in the world is a scum tell? You don't need to be scum level defensive to notice where that one could have gone.

Ok, did not realise how new Orangebottle was. To a degree, then, his actions become more understandable. On the other hand, I do not get the impression that he is an idiot. Is it that hard to just ignore the aggravating nature of your questions, if you know that there is nothing to be found by them? I pose that it is not.

But there was something to be found. Firstly, it was a chance to gauge Orange, and taking skill level into account, for what were a rather strange string of questions, he didn't do too badly. A mistake or two, but few people will get through a game making not a single mistake. But more importantly, it was so that I could see who would jump on the bandwagon, and especially why.

Parroted is such a negative term, but call it what you will. How is that worrying? You make a good point, I agree with you. Calling it stolen reasoning makes it sound like you don't want anyone to agree with you.
And honestly, is one random vote and one pressure vote a bandwagon? I think I might say that I am the only person voting for Orangebottle who actually intends to see him lynched.

It is my point, I'll assess how valid it is.
It is worrying because it is something scum could do to look like they are contributing, while just following somebody around. Townies don't follow people around because they don't know who the scum are. Anyway, I said Orange made a mistake, but did I ever say he should hang for it? Your extrapolating my argument, not just agreeing.
One random vote, one that could or could not have been serious, and a barrel load of questions that from anybody else would almost certainly come with a vote. But the point is that scum like to find the bandwagon fast, and with at least two players on Orange's case, he was already a good target.

Right now I need to know why Max White isn't voting anyone.

I don't like to dilute my vote. If you move it around enough, people get to realise that you will move it again, but if you save it for when you mean it, people know when you mean it. As such, I vote when I mean it, mostly.

[Simple]

If no one minds another semi-newbie in the game i can replace in if there's still need for it.

[Orangebottle]

Are we allowed to use evidence from other(ongoing) games? If so, I have some damning shit:

Spoiler: may or may not be valid (click to show/hide)

-Ah. Overdefending. Accusation of last resort for weak attacks. However, a word of advice:
OVERDEFENDING.
IS.
A FALLACY.
'Overdefending' is not a scumtell. Being able to explain your actions in meticulous detail just means that you had a good reason for performing said actions. Pre-emptively explaining your actions saves people time. If the action has no reason/a stupid reason, it cannot be explained.

from here, I couldn't quote it properly because the thread is locked.

Why would you then proceed to try and use overdefending to get me lynched?

[Max White]

I don't think there are strict rules against it, although it could fall under the 'Don't talk about existing games' rule, as there is no way to defend yourself and not break that rule, so we try to keep all games fully self contained until they are over and become meta.

So, yea, don't do that, just out of love for the game.

[Orangebottle]

I don't think there are strict rules against it, although it could fall under the 'Don't talk about existing games' rule, as there is no way to defend yourself and not break that rule, so we try to keep all games fully self contained until they are over and become meta.

So, yea, don't do that, just out of love for the game.

Well, it's there, and I cannot edit it. So. Yeah.

I also can't seem to find the 'don't talk about existing games' rule.

[Max White]

I know it is somewhere, but there is a blanket rule that if you want to talk about an ongoing game, your either in the game, or in the games deadchat. Anywhere else and you might become an outside influence.

You could ask Toaster for an edit on that post if you think what is in there requires it. I don't know if it is that bad or not, but if it is worrying you might as well check with the mod.

[Toaster]

Please only discuss ongoing games in the relevant thread.  I don't see a need to remove what has already been said.

If no one minds another semi-newbie in the game i can replace in if there's still need for it.

Your role PM is inbound.  Just confirm to me when you get it and you're in.

[Mr.Person]

@NUKE:

I'm just wondering what made you jump to "Orangebottle is scum!" rather than "Orangebottle is new!" since both are reasonable explainations for the behavior.

This one, specifically. Although I know the answer, so I guess it matters more what makes you still think this now.

Right now I need to know why Max White isn't voting anyone.

I don't like to dilute my vote. If you move it around enough, people get to realise that you will move it again, but if you save it for when you mean it, people know when you mean it. As such, I vote when I mean it, mostly.

So how are you going to figure out who the scum are?

[Max White]

So how are you going to figure out who the scum are?

Careful questioning and watching replies. People have gotten used to being voted for, so why continue? If you want people to be scared of your vote, make sure they know your going to do something with it, by not voting until you can really do something with it.

[Orangebottle]

Please only discuss ongoing games in the relevant thread.  I don't see a need to remove what has already been said.

Curses. Because I actually had something there.

[TolyK]

If no one minds another semi-newbie in the game i can replace in if there's still need for it.

I don't mind. I'm rereading the thread btw

[Simple]

Got the PM, rereading now and  i'll post something with actual content soon. If there were any questions my predecessor left unanswered i'll try to get to them.