Wait wait wait, I'm a bit confused, NUKE. Why is feeling pressured a scumtell? Townies can feel pressured. Yes, scum generally feel more threatened than a townie would in the same situation, but you haven't really established what makes Orangebottle's panic scummy. Now, I understand you have a further case against Orangebottle, but you're basically saying "If Orangebottle is scum, he's panicking under pressure because he's afraid of dying and looking bad, proving he's scum!" when it could be "If Orangebottle is town, he's panicking because he's not aware that townies shouldn't fear dying or looking bad".
I also have to wonder why you're basically giving Firelordsky a free pass for what is basically the exact same action as Orangebottle. Actually, Firelordsky's is worse since there isn't even an attempt to make an attack.
The reason that Orangebottle's panic is scummy is that there is absolutely no reason for it. Max never even voted for the guy. All he did was ask a bunch of (strange) questions. Town could react to these questions naturally without worrying about giving away the fact that they are scum, because they are not scum. Hence anyone who worries (excessively) about how to answer the question is scummy.
The "Orangebottle is town" scenario is silly because there was no risk of death, and town should not fear looking bad (not that much, anyway). If Orangebottle doesn't know this- well, I assume he does. He should.
And firelordsky is new. I don't like it, and if he hadn't been dropping out I wouldn't have tolerated after I suggested an alternate course of action. So yes, he gets a free pass. Orangebottle does not.
The first RVS questions lead to more questions. RVS is why Max White has a case. Granted, it's a case on a townie, but the only reason he has it is because of my answer to one of his RVS questions. RVS alone won't usually lead to a scum lynch unless the person asking the questions is lucky, but if one finds the answers scummy and continues asking questions, they'll be able to build a better case.
See above again; the RVS is so stagnated that scum and town alike know how to respond to the questions (I guess you are new at playing scum) in order to get the questioner to move on (also, Max White is a stubborn SOB). This means that whilst -in theory- the RVS leads into discussion, in practice, it tends to drag on without any actual suspicions emerging from the chaos. We were lucky, this game.
You mean like in the current Beginner's Mafia? I guess this makes a bit of sense. Though, there is a problem with your logic: I'm not playing scum. I'm playing town.
Thats not how logic works. From my perspective, you are. Hence, my logic is sound. You claim to disagree, and if you were town, obviously the logic would fall apart from an objective standpoint. But mafia logic can almost never be better than subjective.
Bandwagon
I like to call this 'buzzwording'; finding something that looks like one of those fancy mafia terms, using said fancy mafia term, and not explaining why. Buzzwords can't scumhunt! You have to do it! The buzzwords are merely shorthand, not accusations in and of themselves!
Yes, yes you do. See above. You were/are acting crazy pressured. At this point, it could be justified, given the three votes on you. When Max started questioning you, it wasn't. At all.
I go on to explain why later in the post, if you read. I'll even quote it here for you:
and then you just pick up Max's case and say "Go hang."
Ah. See, that's not bandwagoning. Bandwagoning is voting for someone
because other people are voting for them. Voting for someone for the same reason is not bandwagoning. You can tell the difference by asking the potential bandwagoneer to explain their reasons; if they cannot, or have difficulty doing so, they are probably bandwagoning. I agreed with Max. I used his suspicions as a jumping off point for my own. This does not make me a bandwagoneer.
0)I did not attack you for asking me questions. Had you not, I would still have voted for you given your strange behaviour earlier.
0a)I have so contributed. To reiterate; in the previous stage of the game, promoting discussion is contributing. I promoted discussion=I contributed.
1)When did I say that.
2)Right. If you really, really want me to answer your question, tell me this first: WHY. At this point, what could you possibly gain from a silly random question about my preference of item?
3)Two answers to this: A)I GET CAPSY IN MAFIA. DEAL WITH IT. IT DOES NOT (HARDLY) IMPEDE MY CAPACITY FOR REASON
B)I GOT ANGRY TO GET PEOPLE TO CALL ME ANGRY, FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROMOTING DISCUSSION
4)Nope. I am voting for you third because I believe you are scum for the reason above. To reiterate: overly defensive, feels pressured at early stage.
0)So you'd still be bandwagoning, because you're lazy scum who doesn't want to make a case for himself.
0a)Yeah. You promoted discussion. By getting a whole bunch of people to attack you. Nice going.
1) When you started ranting about how RVS is shit. As I have said earlier, RVS is a way to start building a case. When you don't have that, you're just going on random shit.
2)Your refusal to answer the question is scummy; you don't want Town knowing things, even if it's a 'silly' RVS question.
3A) WELL IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN ANGRY CHILD. YOU SHOULD PROBABLY STOP, IT'S NOT EXACTLY CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL. ACTUALLY IT MAKES YOU SEEM LESS INTELLIGENT BECAUSE YOU'RE TYPING IN ALLCAPS LIKE ONE OF THOSE YOUTUBE COMMENTERS.
3B)Promoting discussion about lynching you? Yeah, that's what's going on.
4)So, you're voting me with MaxWhite's case. As I said earlier, blatant bandwagoning. You're voting for me with no original reasons of your own. Scum.
0)Once again, agreeing with someone-else's case =! bandwagoning. The point is that I didn't attack you for asking me a question, annoying as it was.
0a)Yes. Wait, are you berating me for this? If you honestly think that I am scum, wouldn't you be glad that I'm being so blatant about it?
0aI)Also, yes. It is nice going. This, you must agree, is more productive than asking silly questions? I have done this on purpose. I am confident in my ability to defend myself, showing the world how my attackers think in the mean time.
1)Really starting to annoy me now, like on a personal level. I have said, REPEATEDLY, that RVS is not necessary for building discussion. Thus if I slam RVS, I am not also slamming discussion.
2)So would it be less scummy for me to answer it now? I have already not answered it. And, really, really? You think the mafia doesn't want town to know what their favourite item is?
Let me be honest: I didn't answer your question because it was silly, and I didn't feel like poring over the list of items, trying to choose which one I like best.
3A)INDIRECT INSULTS, WONDERFUL. NOT HELPFUL.
3B)See: 0AI.
4)See, its pretty clear you don't actually know what bandwagoning is, or why its a scumtell. See above for explanation. It's not bandwagoning.
Orangebottle did not react in the perscribed manner to your questions. At first, he seemed merely annoyed at their pointlessness, but as one goes on one quickly realizes that he is more concerned with appearing like scum; constantly analysing the actions of both of you to prove his innoccence.
They're random questions! There is nothing deep about them! No one is going to lynch you for answering them wrong! Why on earth does he feel under so much pressure after one random question and one follow up question?
The logical answer is because he has a reason to be afraid; that he is scum.
You will notice the inherent hypocrisy in having RVS-information as a basis for a vote immediately following a statement that the RVS cannot provide useful information. This was done on purpose, to further aggrevate Orangebottle in an attempt to get more information. It falls under the heading of 'acting stupid and irrational', for the purposes of starting the day up.
What do you mean 'constantly analysing the actions of both of you to prove his innoccence'? As I recall it was the fact that he wasn't being that careful at all, rather just glancing off questions without worrying, or really thinking about them, that lead onto that string of questioning.
See: 'not falling for that trap', the analysis of both your actions, which totally did happen (ex:
here)
Further more, I would expect a new player, either town or scum, to feel under pressure when given something they have never had to deal with before. You know how most people play the RVS, they are like bots, just throwing out questions and moving on way too quickly, but when I pressed on, that was applying a lot more pressure than your average RVS question. He didn't just suddenly snap under a single question or two, it was a drawn out sequence of interrogation, the kind of thing that even town can break under, especially if they are totally new to it.
Ok, did not realise how new Orangebottle was. To a degree, then, his actions become more understandable. On the other hand, I do not get the impression that he is an idiot. Is it that hard to just ignore the aggravating nature of your questions, if you know that there is nothing to be found by them? I pose that it is not.
Anyway, if you do something like contradicting yourself, how are we meant to tell scum contradictions from trying to agitate conversation? With that logic, you could justify any scummy behaviour.
I only do my random bullshit at the beginning of the game. I have since stopped, as it has already lead to discussion.
It is worrying that the only thing you choose to justify your vote with is something you parroted from me. Even more so that your using this stolen reasoning to jump on a bandwagon.
Parroted is such a negative term, but call it what you will. How is that worrying? You make a good point, I agree with you. Calling it stolen reasoning makes it sound like you don't
want anyone to agree with you.
And honestly, is one random vote and one pressure vote a bandwagon? I think I might say that I am the only person voting for Orangebottle who actually intends to see him lynched.
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Topic: Roguelike Mafia 3 - Rise of the Jewel [Game Over] (Read 114209 times)